this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2023

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Reddit Migration

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Fediverse won't replace Reddit as long as Lemmy is the main platform being promoted (kbin.social)

submitted 2 years ago by Fizzee@kbin.social to c/RedditMigration@kbin.social

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Think about things from the point of view of someone who has never used Reddit or the fediverse, but you've heard about them both from recent news articles and want to see what they are about.

Reddit:- You Google Reddit and your first result is Reddit.com. You click the link and are presented with the front page. You from scroll from a few hours and end up signing up and staying.

Lemmy:- You Google Lemmy and your first result is a wiki article for Lemmy Kilmister... Your second result might be join-lemmy.org, which you're smart enough to realise it's probably more likely what the news is about.

You click join-lemmy.org and are presented with a page of information about the fediverse, links to set up a server and pictures of code...

There is very little chance you're going to investigate further.

If we want the fediverse to replace Reddit then either
A) Lemmy needs to improve its initial impression and Search engine optimization
B) We should be promoting a different platform with a better initial first impression.

I'd recommend kbin personally as it gives the same sort of experience as Reddit from the initial interaction.

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[–] donuts@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

You're absolutely right that we have a bit of a terminology issue here, but one slightly advanced and techy thing to understand about the fediverse is that the fediverse itself is the "platform":

Lemmy, Kbin, Mastodon, Calckey, etc., are software projects or processes that are running on some server somewhere, and ActivityPub is the protocol (kind of like a language) that all these processes use (to varying degrees) to speak with each other. As users, we interact with a specific server or service (like beehaw.org or kbin.social) that is running that software and sharing info with other servers through a protocol.

This is totally different to Reddit or Twitter, which are both the names of the service AND (probably, but we don't now) the software that the service is running behind the scenes. Naturally that makes it a bit easier to talk about, because we don't have any access to or knowledge about the software or protocols that they use, and we can just talk about the services.

This is all a long-winded way of saying that Kbin and Lemmy are replacements for Reddit (the software) while servers like kbin.social or beehaw.org are replacements for Reddit.com (the service), except they also talk to each other somewhat seamlessly. I'm logged into the server "kbin.social", which runs a software called "Kbin", which communicates over a protocol called "ActivityPub" to a bunch of users who are on other servers running other software.

In other words, Google searching for "Lemmy" isn't exactly a good metric, not only because Reddit is one of the biggest websites around and Google knows this, but also because "Lemmy" isn't the actual name of the service that we are using right now, just the software. If you tell someone to go over to a specific server (like beehaw.org, kbin.social, etc.) then they'll have a much easier time finding something that they can actually use.

Most of us are guilty of kind of glossing over all this stuff to keep things simple and easy to understand, but there are some layers of nuance to the fediverse here that make this a little bit more complicated than you're making it out to be imo.

[–] bluGill@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago (37 children)

I recommend kbin just because some of the people behind Lemmy are vocal far left wing. I want to support more moderates in the world.

[–] JamesGray@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago (13 children)

What's the moderate position between "trans people should not be allowed to exist in society" and "trans rights are human rights"? You have to understand every time you or anyone else says some shit like this you're basically crying that people are taking a position instead of just watching the right wing try to ruin peoples lives.

The supreme court literally ruled to allow businesses to discriminate against people based on sexuality yesterday.

[–] Crankpork@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This. While things are new, and nothing has taken the place of "service that everyone uses", LGBTQA+ people are going to avoid the unsafe places which is going to push discussions further and further right. A "moderate" position that treats the bigots the same as people who just want to live and feel safe isn't moderate at all.

[–] Briguy24@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

An actual moderate position there is to just not go out of your way to be an asshole. But some people want to be assholes and vilify those who may not be able to protect themselves. I can't stand the people who want to 'debate' human rights. No, that line of thinking isn't welcome going forward.

[–] Kantiberl@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I firmly believe everyone has the right to live freely and to find their own path, provided they don't harm others. Hate speech and violence have no place in our society, and I wholeheartedly stand with the trans community in advocating for their protection.

Nonetheless, here's a viewpoint I have that I know is not accepted, but I'll share it anyway. I believe the compulsion of speech, particularly insisting that all of society adapt their language to accommodate individual identities, is a terrible approach. The notion of forced speech is problematic to me, and worries me greatly.

That said, I believe it's important to work towards a society that respects every person, but without mandating how we perceive them. Life's journey is all about confronting adversity, and part of this involves learning to navigate the world as it is, not necessarily as we'd like it to be. Instead of dictating specific definitions, it might be more beneficial to cultivate a culture of empathy, understanding, and open dialogue around these issues. This perspective is unpopular and contentious, but it is a conversation that we should be willing to engage in.

Anyways that's what I see as the moderate take, and it's what I believe. I had to tiptoe pretty hard there and I'm sure what I said still comes across as hate speech to some but I don't feel it is. It's just my opinion. I wish there was a place I could express it and have an open debate with people about it. We can't eliminate half of society, and we're going to have to learn how to empathize with people we disagree with in order to actually see where they are coming from.

[–] JamesGray@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Nonetheless, here's a viewpoint I have that I know is not accepted, but I'll share it anyway. I believe the compulsion of speech, particularly insisting that all of society adapt their language to accommodate individual identities, is a terrible approach. The notion of forced speech is problematic to me, and worries me greatly.

Is this the fucking Jordan Peterson position? Whose speech has been compelled? A man walked into a Philosophy of Gender class this week in Canada and stabbed three people, so sorry if I'm a lot more concerned with the constant hate speech being levied against LGBTQ+ people than I am with the anomalous concept of "compelled speech" which has not as of yet been an issue and only exists in the fever dream of transphobes who want to actively misgender people while working in public positions in Canada.

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[–] LordR@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

What is your definition of moderates? As I see it a moderate in Europe is vastly different to a moderate in the USA.

I think it is hard to figure out what you understand as moderate without seeing knowing about what you political opinions are.

[–] AlternativeEmphasis@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

You're being downvoted because people don't understand you're not talking about "far left" like some Trumper. You mean literal tankies, which absolutely yes some of the Lemmy Devs are as well as Lemmy.ml. It's also a reason I selected Kbin.

[–] Treedrake@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

While I'm quite left wing, I have huge problems with them (as well as the main dev) being authoritarian, genocide-defending tankies. That praise China, Russia and DPRK. It's maddening.

[–] smellythief@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago

Then pick a server that’s not run by “the people behind Lemmy”. Solved.

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[–] Jaysyn@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

I don't care if it replaces reddit. I care that it remains free of corporate control.

[–] swirls@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I'm on kbin now because I have no idea what I'm doing.

[–] sheepishly@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

based, me too

[–] burgundymyr@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

I figured out how to join lemmy by joining kbin, now I'm on both! The Jerboa app is better than anything I could find for kbin, so I joined lemmy.world and have a nicer interface.

[–] exohuman@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

From my own experience as a user, it doesn’t matter whether you choose kbin or Lemmy in terms of what content you see. However, yes the look and feel for new users is much better with kbin (especially on iOS). Lemmy has some amazing front ends in development though that will eclipse kbin very soon. It’s just a matter of time.

[–] makunabatata@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

Until search engines and LLM companies start crawling the fediverse, this will continue to be a niche of the internet, albeit perhaps large one at that.

[–] BlackCoffee@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Reddit is almost 20 years old now?

Do you expect Lemmy and Kbin to be an immediate replacement or an replacement at all?

[–] ApollosArrow@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

Agreed. I am very confused by most of these types of comments. “Why isn’t this newer thing with a smaller user base as robust and efficient as a 20yr old platform?” Things take time. Not to mention it SHOULD also take time, since these instances would not be able to hold the amount of users Reddit has. I’m sure many people complained about Reddit when they jumped from Digg.

[–] DrYes@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

You click join-lemmy.org and are presented with a page of information about the fediverse, links to set up a server and pictures of code...

Not sure what universe you are from but in my reality that's just bullshit. What you said is there but right next to the "set up a server" button is a "join a server button". And right above the scary code pictures is another "join a server button".

[–] onichama@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

Me, reading this through lemmy (feddit): hmmm yes

But for real, I see what you mean with the first impression at join-lemmy.

[–] iso@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago

The thing that worries me about kbin is that everything is located on one single instance. You guys are building a lot of centralization over there which might lead to a Reddit 2.0 scandal at some point

posted from Lemmy

[–] beefcat@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

Reddit:- You Google Reddit and your first result is Reddit.com. You click the link and are presented with the front page. You from scroll from a few hours and end up signing up and staying.

I don't think this is the path most people take to becoming new Reddit users.

I think most people end up using new social media sites because they get linked to content already on a given site that they like. This could be from friends sharing links, or through Google results from the site.

[–] Machinist3359@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

Fediverse really needs onboarding pages that hides some of the wires.

Join Lemmy for example should highlight the content and UI, and a big "Join the Lemmy Fediverse" button. Click the button and it asks 3 questions and send you directly to account creation for an active instance matching your answers.

Frankly instance choice should be something people think about after they've been involved for a while, at least until we have a few multi-million active user instances to choose from

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