this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
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the_dunk_tank

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It's the dunk tank.

This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.

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[–] nocages@hexbear.net 61 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Am I reading something different than everyone else here? Because I completely understand what she's trying to get at.

Leftists are dismissing the song because its early interest was astroturfed. This is throwing the baby out with the bathwater, because it has actual interest among people now, because of the astroturfing. How do we combat this problem? Just because we dismiss the song as astroturfed right-wing propaganda doesn't mean the listeners are. The right is changing minds with content like this, and it's problematic for us.

"It can't be viral because it was astroturfed" isn't a helpful assessment, because the song absolutely is viral now. It even came up in my feed on a music community. I clicked it because it looked like it would be up my alley based on the title and thumbnail (I enjoy folk music that shits on capitalists) and I only realized it was that song once I got to the line about people "milking welfare." The astroturfing may have raised the song up the hill, but at a certain point it had enough views and such to carry it based on momentum.

What I think the author is trying to say is that the right is succeeding here, and largely leftist media fails to make the same impact. Probably because we don't have the same connections that allow astroturfing that the people who pushed this song do. But that does leave a meaningful question: how do we reverse this trend and get people interested in leftist topics through arts and culture? How do we promote the material we have already created?

Edit: Oh no, I just heard it on the radio.

[–] hotcouchguy@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago

You'd think, as a bunch of paid CCP sock puppets and shills, we'd have some better astroturfing of our own.

[–] MerryChristmas@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

I'm with you. Sometimes it seems like we're content to sit back and be proven right by the failures of capitalism, but if we want to actually build anything that lasts then we need to engage instead of sticking to our insular pockets. I do think federation has been a step in the right direction for that reason.

[–] GenXen@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Roger Waters has faces more backlash for simply opening his mouth on any given day of the week for the last forty five years than this fella has over the last week. It's illegitimate to pretend like there hasn't been a organized and concerted effort by elites controlling all forms of popular media to quell the left's point of view for over 50 years. Where's the lefty viral artists?

Pawn Stars Rick: "Best I can do is a Grimes."

[–] coeliacmccarthy@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago

Where's the lefty viral artists?

they were all found in burning cars

[–] DoghouseCharlie@hexbear.net 31 points 1 year ago

I'm glad I don't know who these people are or what they're referencing.

[–] LeBron@hexbear.net 30 points 1 year ago

I get what she's trying to say, as goofy as this hog song is, it did it's job and people are eating it up. The left will never reach the masses with pro working class art, that stuff is going triple tinfoil and reaching nobody when you compare the numbers.

[–] Walk_On@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

She later deleted it saying:

Gonna delete my "Rich Men North of Richmond" thread because too many people are mistaking it for an argument in defense of the song, which it isn't. My fault for not communicating better. I'll probably write an article fleshing out my thoughts later on.

Sure, Caitlin, we misunderstood what you were trying to say lol

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 40 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think she's simply trying to say "fuck, we need a viral 2023 lefty song".

Of course that shit might be boosted by the someone "tilting" the youtube algorithms, but also, a lot of people is reactionary. The virality of that shit might be "genuine".

[–] TraschcanOfIdeology@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's concerning that astroturfed or not, two conservative/fash songs in quick succession seem (emphasis on the seem) to have had a way bigger impact outside of its usual base than any left wing music on the same people in the past 5 years. We can talk about how the working class of the imperial core can at best only be social chauvinist, and most of the time actively fash to justify it, and how the US is an actively fascist culture, but the observable effect is that two country songs with an openly bigoted and hateful message got big in the past month or two, and that requires some self-crit and reflection on what the left is doing in terms of mass art for the working class.

If only we all had our own personal Engels to send us money from their factory to write and sing and stuff.

[–] Nagarjuna@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago

I don't think she was defending it. I genuinely think you misunderstood her.

[–] cynesthesia@hexbear.net 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

she should learn about ICP and juggalos

[–] cynesthesia@hexbear.net 26 points 1 year ago

also I don't read CJ religiously or anything but I do read her posts and she's clearly very alienated from society and culture in a cranky way. that's fine, so am I. I just try not to make broad claims about what's going on in the world of pop culture because I just don't know what's going on. no investigation, no right to speak!

I still like her though, she's good on antiwar/imperial propaganda/foreign policy stuff

[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Does this moron not realize there's plenty of leftist folk singers out there and also that youtube is heavily astroturfed by the right who game the system?

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If I read correctly, she does, she's just saying "fuck, we need a 2023 viral lefty song"

[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sure worded it weird and went on a tangent about it then.

[–] nocages@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago

I feel like we need to make an effort to understand what people are trying to say and not shame them for communicating their ideas in a way that we don't understand. To do the latter can be unintentionally ableist.

[–] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago

I think that's the curse of substack subsistence writer. Every online thing happening (in their sphere) must have a take for it and every take just be long winded and try to cram in a unique perspective as an advert for what you get if you subscribe, regardless of whether those things are warranted.

[–] TraschcanOfIdeology@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

A bit of this, and I think she's asking the question: why does the left not have viral songs that capture the imagination of the working class, too? I think she's saying that astroturfing or not, the song has taken a hold in popular culture and that the left needs to get a move on rather than just point at past successes.

[–] Nagarjuna@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago

Isn't that what she said? Lol

[–] KFCDoubleDoink@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago

I knew this song was trouble when it popped into my feed. Its fash shit folks.

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago

A communist Tom Macdonald would be pretty amusing

[–] WoofWoof91@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] ElChapoDeChapo@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah I'm out of the loop too

Who the fuck is this guy and do I have to listen to the song or can I just ignore this?

[–] nocages@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's a song that lures in discontented working class types with lyrics that court their hatred of their bosses and rich people who flaunt their wealth, but it also promotes right-wing talking points like "welfare queens." It's being talked about here because it has become very popular on social media recently. You do not have to listen to the song, it is not very good.

[–] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago

Thanks, I had no idea who this was either. I'm gonna go back to listening to Benjamin Tod when I want to hear some working class folk music.

[–] HarryLime@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Caitlin Johnstone is good. She gets a little excited in her posts and tweets sometimes, but whom amongst us hasn't?

[–] Walk_On@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Nah, she really isn’t. Aside from that she was spreading Pizzagate conspiracy nonsense as well as anti-lockdown/anti-vaccine mandate statements.

[–] GaveUp@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Because she does say many things that are correct and worthy of taking seriously

Think about all the incorrect/weird shit that all the acclaimed and celebrated Marxist philosophers wrote/said

[–] BodyBySisyphus@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/08/oliver-anthony-and-the-incoherence-of-right-wing-populism.html

But the notion that Anthony’s viral success owes nothing to his song and everything to the machinations of conservative apparatchiks is a bit odd. I have no insight into whether Anthony organically came onto the radar of right-wing commentators, who then used their clout to promote him, or was somehow recruited for a meticulously planned propaganda operation. Regardless, it is not as though Matt Walsh has the power to mint chart-topping country songs at will. If he did, he’d be in a different and more lucrative line of work. The music industry is perpetually trying to “Astroturf” hits through concerted and expensive promotional campaigns. It does not always work. Anthony’s song would not have gone viral if it lacked genuine appeal.

[–] coeliacmccarthy@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

i tried to warn you people

[–] stevatoo@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[–] riley0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago

I was paying attention to her a long time ago, maybe during Occupy?, until I looked her up. At that time, she listed her former occupation as astrologer. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.