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Unless your a professional communicator, talking to media is always dangerous. They can totally change what you say using "editing", and loaded question can quickly trap you. There is a reason why there is so many job in communication and media assistant, you don't want to let people talk unsupervised
Honestly, if only a sub reddit keeps a political movement alive, it isn't a political movement
To expand on the point about editing for anyone who assumes that is only means taking things out of context, editing can also be rearranging the order of communication to change the meaning as well as introducing context prior to the interaction that changes the meaning.
Fox News is known for doing all of that.
Unless you're* a professional communicator, talking to media is always dangerous. They can totally change what you say using "editing", and loaded question can quickly trap you.
This is probably the real reason why politicians never actually say "yes" or "no"! Haha
I feel like I was watching a very different situation than the rest of you were.
First off, the antiwork subreddit didn't actually accomplish anything. It was mostly people complaining about bad/illegal practices at their jobs, and literally nothing changing.
Second, things didn't die after that mod appearance. It drew attention to many users that the mods had a different goal than they did, but that didn't change the atmosphere of the posts for very long. The work_reform sub did become more popular, and antiwork still kept getting just as many people complaining about bad practices.
And neither sub got people organized, neither sub changed attitudes, and neither sub made a difference.
I disagree but it didn't accomplish anything. It made people aware that they are not alone in their situation and thinking. It created community. This also helped fuel the great resignation and encouraged people to do better for themselves. To not keep running on the wheel for a broken and abusive system. That's far from nothing.
Even if it never accomplished nothing before the Fox News interview, isn't it interesting Fox felt the need to confront it?
Fox just used it to back their generational culture war theme for another segment
Antiwork accomplished nothing of consequence aside from embarassing itself.
That mod didn't represent a huge chunk of the community that was in that sub which is why people broke off to form another sub that did.
The sad thing is that all FOX really had to do is let this mod speak on what their beliefs were. No dishonest editing to make them look bad was needed. They did that all on their own.
The Reddit antiwork community had quite a few ridiculous folks hanging out within it.
Not that getting to a post-scarcity society where people aren't forced to work wasn't a nice horizon-goal to have, but there are a million steps from where we are in the modern world to there, and a lot of those people wanted it done by next Tuesday. And then when you'd point out that was literally impossible, they'd stick their fingers in their ears and make noises. Needless to say, I didn't try to stick around for long.
people wanted it done by next Tuesday.
me in my 20s
And then when you’d point out that was literally impossible
me in my 30s
The mod broke the first rule of talking to Fox News: never talk to Fox News.
I was amazed at how few people thought she was a plant.
It's not that hard to get someone in a mod position. Then they just have to be a whackjob on air. Mission accomplished.
Vaguely similar to the Occupy Wall Street protests. Interview several people across the country then cherry pick the ways they disagree with each other to call it a disunified movement. All you really need is one discordant voice.
I think it's because a lot of people though: "hmm, yea, that checks out for a reddit mod"
In regards to OWS, they just had to find the most wacked out, stoned nut jobs that saw the sit-in as a party and ask them a couple pointed questions. Then they blast it all over the evening news as a bunch of lazy hippies, no crazy editing needed. I remember seeing the newscast live and compared it to what was going on online, and yeah that was a masterful way to shut it down unfortunately, because the next day all anyone could talk about was the lazy, entitled kids demanding free this or that from wall street. From there the movement was dead in the water.
That mod was definitely not a great public representative. Why go on Fox at all? Pretty obvious they’d try to make you look bad.
Knowing reddit, I assume the thinking was something along the lines of "I can regularly win a reddit argument, therefore my towering intellect will surely win the day on TV and I will become a hero." Which of course doesn't hold up at all against someone with professional-grade social/communication skills no matter how right-on your point is.
While that's true, it's clear from the segment the mod didn't put any thought into their appearance, or prepare for the interview in any way.
The sad thing is that FOX didnt have to do anything to make this mod, and the community they represented, look bad. They did that all on their own because fundamentally something was very wrong with that sub. It wasnt just people legitimately pissed off at employers, there were people in that community that were very much like that mod and the former didn't want to be associated with the latter.
Ah I remember that. The mod was deranged
I remember that! I also remember it passing pretty quickly, don’t think it was effective. And I disagree with all of the nay sayers on the usefulness of those subs. Since that time I’ve noticed a lot more people willing to speak about work as a simple contractual arrangement. Not too long ago you would be called lazy and lacking in team spirit etc. for holding boundaries at work. I’ve had more co-workers express the ‘work to live not live to work’ mentality.
Maybe you guys didn’t grow up around as many people who put their entire human energy into their jobs as I did, but in some places there has been a clear shift in how people are thinking about work. Boomers used to let ther vacation expire guys. I am not seeing that in the workplace anymore. Don’t forget the ‘lying flat’ movement that was/is concurrent and frequently discussed in those subs as well. I truly think the antiwork sub helped spark a conversation in the public zeitgeist and helped spur a shift in thought.
I remember what she said was embarrassing. The discussion afterwards made me realize how many in that sub really were 'antiwork' in a literal sense, not just about labor protections and maintaining work-life balances.
Every movement is going to contain a whole spectrum of voices. Never having to work is pie in the sky but I'll tell you who I'm siding with in the "there should be slaves" and the "people should not have to work at all" argument.
Never having to work is pie in the sky but I’ll tell you who I’m siding with in the “there should be slaves” and the “people should have to work at all” argument.
I'm only 'siding' with people that can recognize that's a very silly false dichotomy.
I remember when anti-work meant anti-work. As in, fewer jobs, more free time, against the notion of labor as an entire thing. Our entire species retiring.
Honestly, I'm glad work reform is a separate thing now, because I don't want to reform work. I want to eliminate it.
Unfortunately much of the world feels entitled to the labor of others and refuses to acknowledge the mental gymnastics we accept as a society.
One has to look no further than the way we treat food service employees. People demand to be served. They feel they are entitled to their basic human needs being serviced while blaming those servicing them for being under valued.
It's sick and twisted; our society is mentally ill.
WorkReform represented how I felt more than AntiWork ever did. That interview just made it really obvious to everyone.
What has reddit accomplished in over a decade? That place has been nothing more than an escalating demoralization psy-op. It's given the right another central platform to push their ideologies. It's had the left preoccupied with petty squabbles.
Maybe reddit closer to 15-20 years ago would have been able to use reddit to stage actual coordinated worker demonstrations in cities around America. Over the past decade or so they've been keyboard mashing.
Reddit isn't a "psy-op" but it does intentionally select for the status quo. Once the decision was made to start trying to IPO, radical elements that were anti-capitalist, were purged from all the major sub-reddits. The other radical's drew traffic and were allowed to stay. Once you get rid of anyone advocating for change, of course stagnation is the end result. That's the goal.
To be fair, a lot of the content on that antiwork sub was basically "communism is when we don't have to work." The whole thing reeked of propaganda intended to make the left look stupid.
Why is it that everytime someone on the left does something stupid online, it's automatically propaganda? Why can't it just be the case that there are a lot of politically and generally uneducated people that are part of the movement, which is consistent with every populist movement for all time? This has to be reckoned with and mitigated if the left ever wants to actually hold power and do something with it.
It's funny you should ask. I use this language specifically because when I say that leftist communities are filled with cringe populism and bad political science, I get banned from .ml pretty reliably. Calling it out as propaganda seems to play better most of the time.
Lol I guess it wouldn't bother me much. I'm a SocDem, which makes me fail the purity tests pretty quickly. I just want a movement with a leftist heart and a pragmatic head, so we can actually win rights instead of performing while the Titanic sinks.
Nah.
A couple idiots made the sub. But then it got popular and most of its users were way more rational than the people who created it.
But they were still the ones in charge of it.
So when Faux News reached out for an interview, they 100% believed they represented their user base and it would be a good idea.
If I'm remembering right, the mod didn't even announce they were doing it. The sub didn't find out till it was aired.
And Faux portrayed the idiot that came on as a perfect representation of all users of the sub.
To be fair, nobody should have to work once Communism is achieved. During socialism sure. Socialism (worker ownership of MoP) incentives automation. Eventually there would be no necessary labor nor resource scarcity. Which is the only way I see communism being fully achieved. FALSC( Fully automated luxury space communism).
I can't imagine that a sub against working is against working. Maybe they should have picked a better name?
There are always a few people who take things to extremes and make themselves look bad. The person who ended up being interviewed on Fox News made themselves look foolish on their own, the only real issue there was their views being treated as a thing that the majority of the left thinks.
One of the reasons I am on Lemmy is to get away from all the bullshit Reddit drama and infighting...
Yep, im pretty sure after that reddit Admins ousted the remaining mods and installed their own. Thats part of why the workreform sub grew so large.
Definitely not a psyop though, its not like the government has ever done something like that before by lets say dismanteling a radical black socialist group by dividing it against itself into two competing street gangs . . .
Oh wait . . .
Had you read any of the shit before? It's not like anyone needed to do anything. They just had to wait for it to self-incinerate - which it disgracefully did - and then take over.
Why put in effort if all you need to do is eat popcorn and watch? :D
TBH this is one of the left's major flaws in general, in my opinion. The right will generally all glom together on an issue even if it's not 100% what they want, just as long as it's pushing things in the general direction they want. The left tends to be like herding cats, even if you can get a decent amount of people behind an issue, it'll inevitably split over some relatively minor disagreement and then the two sides will spend more time fighting each other than moving the general cause forwards.
'Workreform' was a more accurate name for the majority of people that were on antiwork anyway, since reducing the amount of work and improving conditions while recognizing that some work is still needed is not the same thing as being against work as a concept.