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OPENING CAVEAT: this is purely a rant about my own experiences as a not-rich leftist cis man in a mostly liberal city trying to date women. I cannot speak to any other experiences but mine.

I’m an occasional poster, mostly lurker here posting on a burner acct cause I don’t want to get at all personal on main.

all that out of the way….I am in my mid thirties, living in a large city, strongly leftist (maybe not by hexbear standards but certainly those of….virtually everywhere else), and holy shit does straight dating fucking suck in the 2020s. or at least it has for me.

over the course of my adult years I have rejected one way or another pretty much every structural advantage cis white men typically enjoy (especially higher income) in search of somewhat more ethical ways to get by. I quit my old “real” (bullshit) career and switched over to physical labor work that lets me completely unplug and helps me stay (relatively) fit but also keeps me perpetually on the edge of broke. when I tell women what I do there is a total incuriosity about it, as opposed to when I had a relatively well-paid bullshit career with a ladder - that, strangers can respect. now I scrape by but I no longer have panic attacks wondering what the fuck I’m doing. a personal win that has nevertheless rendered me a lot less dateable in the eyes of my peers. I am not imagining this change in perception, I don’t think, nor did I anticipate it. I guess I should have.

that’s when I even get to the stage of chatting someone up, mind you. when I walk into a small venue or party surrounded by strangers, to steal a line, “I do not light it up.” a single man (or at least a single me) at a social gathering or event is like a fucking wandering fart. (I have described this phenomenon to a couple of female friends and they didn’t disagree.) I guess this helps explain the enduring “wingman” concept but p much all my friends are partnered women I would never dare ask to help me in that way.

I’m slightly below average height which rules out dating basically all women over 5’7 due to idk internalized misogyny or whatever (ftr I would have absolutely no problem dating a taller person if they were attracted to me, and in fact was with someone significantly taller for several years, but since the advent of the apps I get the sense I’m getting filtered out altogether, whether on an app or in person). I know there are a lot of jokes about this but it really is just statistically measurably more difficult in my experience to date women as a short-ish guy (unless you're rich I assume).

in theory I could end my misery of abject singlehood by submitting myself to the mercy of The Apps - I met my last partner there a couple of years ago after a fucking shit ton of swiping - but I am too full of spite to consider going back right now. I hate hate hate using them, hate the feeling that I am entering a highly competitive meat market in which I am clearly a below average cut due to the above mentioned reasons, hate being reminded every time I open them up. also as mentioned I’m fuckin broke and at least as a man, ime, you gotta pay money to make them usable/useful (AKA shoot enough shots to even get a response before you hit the paywall).

that’s all beside my philosophical/political objection to using them which is that I fuckin abhor having to give my extremely personal information to some evil company. that’s why I have tried to manufacture as many scenarios/activities as possible to meet ppl IRL, but it’s been a couple of years of this with barely a hint of a spark anywhere.

here’s another major problem specific to my age bracket and gender: I emphatically DO NOT WANT to try to date significantly younger women, but ime they really do seem to make up the majority of women interested in dating a man my age who lives the way I do (that is, sans any sense of upward mobility or interest in “traditional” ways of doing things).

lastly, I wanted to add something about the cis aspect of all this….most of my friends and associates are women and nb folks, and virtually all of them are some flavor of queer. I’m not really, or certainly not enough to comfortably identify that way. it really seems like all the cheap and no-cost speed dating events and mixers I’ve spotted, or at least the ones that would theoretically be good for meeting other leftists, are queer-centric or queer-exclusive. great for you folks! not very helpful for me tho…

also before anyone chimes in with “it’s cool/ok/fine to be single” or any variant thereof….I’ve already spent major chunks of my adult life, years at a time, on my own. I’ve reaped all the benefits there are from singlehood, and I’m grateful for them, but I’m just so fucking lonely and it gets harder every year.

thank you for entering the leftist cis man rant zone. I invite other hexbears to share their grievances as well. I'm not really looking for advice tbh just wanted to yell somewhere

EDIT: shout out to all fellow hexbears struggling in this area I very much like you all!

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[–] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 61 points 7 months ago (18 children)

also before anyone chimes in with “it’s cool/ok/fine to be single” or any variant thereof…

seriously fuck anyone who says this shit to someone saying they can't find any partner. and it's definitely not fucking fine to live your life with no peers who care about you.

[–] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 26 points 7 months ago (3 children)

I mean I wouldn't have any basis of comparison for anything else anyway deeper-sadness

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[–] EmmaGoldman@hexbear.net 52 points 7 months ago (1 children)

My recommendation, find a buddy or two you can get baked and watch movies with. Do this regularly, it's good for the soul.

[–] burnerforyou@hexbear.net 48 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I have roomies for this purpose. Not the same :( incidentally, having roomies ALSO makes it harder to date women my age smdh

[–] EmmaGoldman@hexbear.net 40 points 7 months ago

Yeah roomies definitely get in the way of dating a lot more than you'd think.

[–] TheLastHero@hexbear.net 47 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (10 children)

good lord yes, it's ugly out here. And I love when the go to excuse you usually receive from the internet is "well you must just have a shitty personality," nah, my personality is great, I make friends easily as hell when I actually get the opportunity to make them. (And let's be honest, we all know a good personality has never been a necessary prerequisite for intimacy)

But the opportunities simply do not exist, they are drying up just like our freshwater sources. Alienation is intensifying across western society, and social relationships become increasingly transactional and nakedly self-interested. And my god, I swear interpersonal communication skills are at a historic low. I don't think people even really know what they want anymore, after being fed so much manufactured, individually targeted corporate culture and living under "democratic" political regimes whose entire purpose is to gaslight you into being proud of your own exploitation. No wonder everyone seems fucked in the head psychosexually in the west these days.

Imo it's because liberalism in all its glorious "brilliance" has created a patriarchal society in which no one can become patriarchs anymore (though that was always sort of a myth for most people to begin with, but it's like there's less smoke to obscure that fact now). Tons of people don't even want this dynamic anymore. but society seems completely stagnant, like there's nothing to do about it but suffer trying to either attract or become one of these ridiculous caricatures of "dominance" while 99% of the population are forced to live as pathetic losers in comparison (aka "the proletariat"). The dissonance is fucking people up (men AND women) just like it fucked up the chuds into becoming qanon freaks. And personally I feel this phenomenon is partially why younger people are becoming more open to queer and nb ideas because the "standard" gender norms don't make any god-damned sense anymore in contemporary society.

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[–] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 37 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Glad to know I'm not the only one out there having a horrible time on the dating apps. They really, really suck. It's frustrating to continually match with women who don't seem to bear much interest in me as a person or the things I care about but do want to immediately interrogate me about my sexual history and watch me squirm as I try to find the best way to spin my total lack of relationship history due to severe mental illness.

I'm 37 now, turning 38 in a few months. I've never had many friends and never officially got my shit together in any capacity. And I feel, sometimes, like I missed the boat on life, and I don't get to be a real person because I wasn't able to move out and make my own life before whatever the fuck milestone it is that makes it too late. How am I supposed to get any relationship experience if most women treat me like a leper if I'm honest about never having been in one?

[–] bigboopballs@hexbear.net 25 points 7 months ago (2 children)

wow, I never even get to that conversation. we usually just exchange "hey" and "how's it goin" and then the conversation fizzles out because neither of us are interesting. lol

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[–] burnerforyou@hexbear.net 20 points 7 months ago

Oh man I feel that re: conversations on the apps. Like a more personal and deflating version of a bad job interview.

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 36 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Women don't be masking. deeper-sadness

Not that men are either. But I do, and having the bare minimum of concern for the health of me and others is kind of high on my list.

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[–] bigboopballs@hexbear.net 36 points 7 months ago (2 children)

where do I find the women who won't care that I'm unemployed / on disability? thonk

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[–] Coolkidbozzy@hexbear.net 35 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I went on a first date from hinge today with one of the prettiest people I have ever seen

It was fun, and I think went well. If we keep dating, I will have a positive opinion of hinge. The other apps are truly awful, and all of them have issues with starting conversations and creating genuine connections

[–] Coolkidbozzy@hexbear.net 34 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Update: I have been friendzoned lol

I'll take it, she was very cool, shares my hobbies, and I can always use more friends to partake in my adventures

hinge remains okay I guess, I'll try one more time to find someone on it before giving up lol

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[–] DrCrustacean@hexbear.net 35 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I know it can be frustrating when someone gives you advice in response to venting...

But

p much all my friends are partnered women I would never dare ask to help me in that way.

Why not? I don't know the nature of your friendships, but I don't think its too much to ask a favor to help set you up with someone. Friend-of-a-friend type situations were how most couples met before The Time of The App in my experience

[–] burnerforyou@hexbear.net 29 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

mainly two reasons:

1 at this point my close friends, who I can count on one hand, are ppl I've known for 10-15+ years and it just feels weird to rock certain boats in certain directions iykwim

2 my friends are all "well-adjusted" lib professionals whose friends are also that and none of them would stoop to dating a broke manual laborer who doesn't want to buy a house or whatever. I'm a total outlier in my social circle even a degree or two removed. again, whoops!

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[–] SoylentSnake@hexbear.net 35 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

lol oh man, anyone who knows me from the megathreads knows ive been griping about almost the exact same shit for the past >half a year - I'm pushing 33 and got out of an adulthood-spanning serious partnership almost a year ago after a number of different long-standing issues made me realize i didn't want it to be my lifelong romantic relationship. work an unskilled manual labor job that will probably be a foot in the door to a larger career, but one in a relatively low-paying, public service position. (i'm also shorter than average, though i think (?) conventionally pretty solid looking)

honestly if i knew being single in the 2020s was this bad, i might have just tried to work things out with my ex (deep down i think it was still the right call to end things, but the misery of being single in our current dating environment sometimes makes me wonder lol). the apps are pretty much worthless, had to pay-to-win to even get a not-insignificant number of matches, but converting those matches into actual convos let alone dates has been pretty much a non-starter. the few times ive gotten promising seeming matches, they've dropped off the conversation but not given me the clear no of an unmatch. in addition to the self-esteem blow this all brings, i also hate how many profiles i have to swipe left on who i know with 95% certainty i wouldn't be interested in - they're people too who are probably lonely like me, and it feels like im just adding another layer of dehumanization into my life as a regular thing. these distinct souls with interiority are reduced to a "meh, i think not" in a human being catalogue. it's fucking gross.

i also know men are "supposed" to swipe relatively indiscriminately, but im honestly pretty selective about my type - if someone isn't some combo of creative, intellectual, also a leftist, into some of the same nerdy shit i am, a lil "alt", etc etc, i tend not to be attracted to them beyond physical attraction. and a lot of the matches i do get check these boxes! but, it's just so hard to stand out from the sea of men/the "meat market" as you put it that those matches just don't amount to shit. part of this boils down to enshittification/the apps not working being better for profit. but imagine if we could actually filter for hobbies, politics, etc as a given with these stupid things??? oh, the horror!

i also think your point about this being driven by loneliness is important. i'd be more "fine with being single" if the world had any semblance of community or consistent access to consistent friendships built into it anymore. but as it stands its "wake up in my apartment box, go to work box where people only interact sporadically (if they get along at all), go back home to my home box, sleep, repeat, punctuated by seeing friends once a month if im lucky (where we spend waaaaaaay too much money to do basic shit like get dinner or drinks together), once every few months if not." i will ask though, what's your cutoff for "significantly younger"? i keep a pretty wide range of Solidly An Adult open (would be open to anyone from 26 to early 40s), i personally think it's too hard to find a solid connection for me to be super inflexible about age. but everyone has their own standards and comfort levels!

EDIT: oh also i just don't list my height if its an option shrug-outta-hecks and while my results are still not amazing i think it's helped lmao i just don't see much upside in it, there's a million different ways a date can be shitty or a waste of time and if height is a dealbreaker for the other person then whatever, they don't have to go out with me again shrug-outta-hecks

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 20 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I've talked with some people about the app business and the strategy seems to be "make your profile have the appropriate features to attract the sort of person you are interested in without concern for the others, and then swipe right completely indiscriminately, without even looking at the profiles for a moment" because it's just better for your mental health than actually participating actively in The Market. If you get a bad match, you can just cut it off then.

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[–] burnerforyou@hexbear.net 18 points 7 months ago (4 children)

solidarity my friend. I am too full of spite to not list my height on the apps tbh, if the other person is gonna be hung up on height at all I'd rather give them a chance to miss out

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[–] OperationOgre@hexbear.net 33 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I feel you. It's comforting to know I'm not the only one with similar experiences, but also agony-shivering that so many of us seem to be going through it

cw self harmAfter cheating on me, my last ex threatened to kill herself if I broke up with her about it. But I've been single for about 5 years now and dating has been so bad that I'm like "maybe it would have been better to try and make that toxic relationship work" lmao

[–] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 24 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I have had the thought sometimes that I can't even find someone to be abusive to me and exploit me and it hurt immensely to have it

I know how fucking toxic that thought is now, and I'm getting better, but it still hurt to tell myself that I'm so fucked up and useless there's nothing to exploit or take advantage of

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[–] burnerforyou@hexbear.net 19 points 7 months ago

Oh yeah I've been through a version of that bullshit wringer. I definitely prize being single over being/staying in a toxic situation.....but the former can still be a huge bummer.

[–] kristina@hexbear.net 33 points 7 months ago

holy shit does straight dating fucking suck

this has always been the case. gays stay winning

[–] MineDayOff@hexbear.net 32 points 7 months ago

Gloria Steinem said you should be just fine because women only supported Bernie for the boys.

In all seriousness I'm sorry dude. It's hard to even make friends when you get older let alone meet partners.

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 30 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I'm a hermit so I can't relate. At a certain point the desire to date vs the energy I need to put into it becomes not worth it in my mind. Sometimes it sucks but I've got no choice at this point.

Plus the city needs me 07

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[–] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 29 points 7 months ago (8 children)

The dig at polyam people is kind of bullshit tbh. I'm polyam and all the other polyam people I know exclusively date other polyam folks. It has nothing to do with them being married or not or tricking anyone, it has everything to do with them having a shared lifestyle/interest and social community that bonds over that shared interest. We go out with our polyam friends to parties or dinners or polyam meetups or whatever and we meet other polyam people and sometimes we also date them.

So that's really the clever trick that polyam folks have already figured out, and is the exact same trick you and everyone else I've ever seen or will ever see complaining that dating is hard need to figure out; go out and do things with other people who have shared lifestyles or interests with you and you will make friends and those friends will introduce you to their friends and at some point along the line you'll probably find someone who wants to date you. Don't do it with the intention of dating, do it with the intention of sharing experiences that you enjoy with other people who also want to share those experiences and the rest will come. It's the exact same thing as what polyam folks do except that polyam folks can also date their friends that they're already hanging out with. That's pretty much it.

Outside of early life relationships (high school / college) where you're just constantly in proximity with single hormonal folks who also want to date...that's pretty much how much people do it. You either get on the apps with your hot face and attract people that way and go out on tons of shitty dates until you find someone who you actually click with, or you go out and share interests with your community and you'll meet someone.

[–] burnerforyou@hexbear.net 29 points 7 months ago (1 children)

was not meant as a broader dig at poly folks, just frustrating to contrast my life vs my friends', and operating as a pair makes a lot of things undeniably simpler vs being alone (again, ime)

[–] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 18 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Thanks for saying so. I will say operating as a pair absolutely makes things much more difficult, despite how it may look. Healthy married polyamorous couples often take years of work to get to that healthy spot...years of unlearning toxic monogamy and relearning how to date in a new broader more ethical mindset. Also at least in my groups most of the polyam folks I know don't date together, although there are some who date primarily as a unit.

Like, yes, sometimes it's simpler because if you have a bad date you can come home to your partner for support. But sometimes it's harder too, like you're having a bad day and your partner is out with their partner and you just have to deal with it alone.

Lotta people see happy polyamorous folks with our big groups of happy people we're all dating and think "wow that looks so easy and nice." And it can be, sometimes, and often is, more publicly. But there's a ton of work that goes on behind the scenes. That's true for every relationship, and multiply it by however many relationships you're in, plus the added complications of their partners, and yeah...it gets messy quick.

Anyway sorry for spamming your thread, I got lots of opinions and experience in this area and also really love talking about it with folks. As much as "dating" can be anyone's hobby ethically, I would count it as one of mine.

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[–] YearOfTheCommieDesktop@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago (4 children)

yeah honestly I think the struggle with meeting people outside of apps might be partly just that we all have less and less time away from work to just be out, recreationally, in the community, socializing. And that when we are out social norms are shifting away from talking to strangers.

[–] SoylentSnake@hexbear.net 23 points 7 months ago

And that when we are out social norms are shifting away from talking to strangers.

gotta love social atomization, baybee!!! big-cool

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[–] Castor_Troy@hexbear.net 26 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Since you invited grievances, here's mine: I went through all of the online dating bullshit 12 years ago, met my soulmate, spent 10.5 years with her. She was in and out of hospitals the entire time and never got a clear diagnosis. Then one day she just suddenly fucking died at a horrifically young age. I found out a couple months later that she had an undiagnosed congenital disease that killed her. We both felt like she was never taken seriously at hospitals because she wasn't insured, wasn't white, had tats and piercings. Basically, she fit a profile. Shit fucking sucks. I'll add that I understand not wanting to be alone. Although I'm alone now as a widower, it's entirely different than when I was single before I met her. Having met her totally filled my heart, and I hope you can find the person that does that for you as well.

[–] Rojo27@hexbear.net 24 points 7 months ago

Yeah its tough. Pretty much in the same situation. about the same age, also in a large city.

I've used apps for years and spent an embarrassing about of money on them. I only recently gave them up. I wouldn't go back. There's just no point to them these days.

I also think that as much as we, as a society, have tried moving past some of the gender norms that were so prevalent in the past. But their impact still weighs heavily today. So things like your job, physical features, etc, etc are still things that can really hold you back in the dating scene.

[–] DayOfDoom@hexbear.net 24 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It sucks, man. Mostly agree. No idea what to do.

[–] DayOfDoom@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (7 children)

I tried publicly messaging dating proposals (on both knees, as per tradition) to every confirmed woman on Hexbear. Didn't work. Did the same for every non-confirmed woman or user with feminine-sounding user name. Didn't work. Tried making a sockpuppet account that I'd use as a "is this man bothering you ma'am" ploy amidst this, which almost worked but as soon as I DMed them from that account they somehow immediately recognized my posting style from the love screeds I'd send them (it's beyond love bombing, I'm a love terrorist and I'm detonating the vest). Got banned from all the Lemmies, so I can't do it there. Reddit is all neolibs whomst I won't even touch.

Also, no one fucking masks and everyone listens to lame shit.

put this in the site banner

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[–] YearOfTheCommieDesktop@hexbear.net 23 points 7 months ago

Solidarity. I'm a bit younger, and not really a man, but I pretty much present as such and have only ever dated as such, and... yeah, shit really sucks.

I've still got some kind of white collar job, though not really much of a ladder, just accumulating more responsibilities with not-quite-commensurate pay raises. Haven't really dated in like 5 years, and before that it was just a LTR, so I have very little awareness/experience with dating, but from what little I have experienced I just hate it.

I'm starting to get to the point where being single has been good for me but sorta, overstayed its welcome, and don't know what to do about it. I have similar reservations about the apps, and I literally can't use them on my phone since I don't have a normal smartphone, plus I don't know what the fuck to tell people about my gender identity, I'm bisexual which seems to be a turn off for a good chunk of people on both sides, and I have some unresolved mental health struggles (but like, who doesn't? right?).

The most recent time I tried using the apps there were some cool (mostly queer) people, but I ran into similar issues as you where it seemed like my lack of career ambition really turned people away, plus my difficulty being like, witty and flirty. I'm a bit too serious and I don't know if I'm even capable of turning that off. It doesn't take a lot, especially in person, to get me laughing and joking, but it isn't instant either, and over text I'm just like... what am I even doing here? I got some matches, some conversations, and like 2 actually arranged dates, both of which ghosted or otherwise flaked.

And when I (very rarely) do meet someone I get along with IRL, I'm too oblivious to act on what in retrospect was probably them showing interest in me (has happened a couple times). So I can work on that I guess, it's not totally hopeless, but someone in a similar position but totally straight/cis I really do not envy.

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago

maya-devious No main I see

You know, your job is unappealing to liberal women but it might actually help you with other leftists. I'm another cis white communist but I still have my PMC job and I can tell it drags me down a lot with the women I want to date. I also find that the women interested in me skew younger, which sucks.

I know they're soul-killing in large amounts, but I got some good pictures and find that 20 minutes a day of swiping yields more dates than I can handle. Problem is almost all are liberals. In particular, I'm killing it on Hinge, which has the most conservative population of all the apps. I've seen two vegans there out of hundreds of profiles. I actually did shell out for a week of Tinder platinum or whatever insanely expensive tier lets you filter by diet, and discovered that there's like 50 single vegans in my city, tops. So fuck the subscriptions, you don't need them.

[–] pumpchilienthusiast@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

having been married (now divorced) to the wrong person I guess I have become very okay with being alone. did some dating post divorce but I live in a place where my type are few and far between. I got called too old by my last date (pre-pandemic, set up by a coworker), and I have little interest in getting back out there again. my advice to you is to get a cat

[–] Lenins_Cat_Reincarnated@hexbear.net 21 points 7 months ago (1 children)

We need to recruit more women into communism

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[–] barrbaric@hexbear.net 20 points 7 months ago

Feel you about the apps, I uninstalled everything like 5 years ago and can't imagine how much worse it's gotten. I definitely prefer being single forever to using them again.

No real advice, but hopefully things work out meow-hug

[–] assyrian@hexbear.net 19 points 7 months ago

nothing to add, just wanted to say I'm basically in the same situation. it seems like most people meet online these days, but I'm a 5'4 guy and not particularly attractive so the apps are just completely hopeless.

[–] bigboopballs@hexbear.net 19 points 7 months ago

yeah I'm on disability and can't even imagine how much it would hurt my chances if I even somehow had a social life where I met women occasionally

I think I'm a completely hopeless case

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