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It's appalling that this is even a question. Children don't need better terms for working at the abattoir, the garbage dump or the sawmill; they need not to be working in those places.
this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2023
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Work Reform
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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
- All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
- Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
- Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
- We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.
Our Goals
- Higher wages for underpaid workers.
- Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
- Better and fewer working hours.
- Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
- Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.
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So true. I can't fathom why a civilized country would let children do labor. This is some straight up 3rd world shit.
I think you described exactly what is happening to this “civilized” country.
I can’t fathom why a civilized country
Making some bold assumptions there, I think.
That it's still third world shit perpetuates our tolerance of it at all. Our manufacturing industries shouldn't br able to move factories offshore to developing countries where they can hire workers for pennies.
They should allow children to work to get money, if that is the only way to get money. Of course, it would be preferable that no one has to work to survive. Or do you think the government should provide free money only to children?
Some people would argue for UBI for everyone, not just children.
But at least in my experience, children get money as an allowance from their parents, which I suppose is somewhat like UBI.
In any case, children should not need money of their own to survive. Their needs should be provided for by the parents.
I think a guaranteed basic income for young people only would certainly make up for keeping them from working. Like you said, nobody having to work to live would be the ideal, but to ban people from being able to support themselves and doing nothing to make up the difference creates artificial dependence that keeps people in abusive situations with no recourse.
The need for capital to find ever cheaper labor to exploit, accelerated by Republicans. I was trying to avoid loaded terms like "civilized" and "third world", but it does not make the USA look good at all.
Children? A 16 year old is not a child. They are a teenager; very nearly an adult. They absolutely should work a job to learn the value of working for money. It's a very important concept for young adults to learn.
That said, none of these jobs should exist if appropriate safety measures aren't being taken. I don't care if you're a teenager or an adult, you shouldn't be dying in a lumbar yard or a mine barring a freak accident. You shouldn't need a union to protect you. Safety regulations should just be a natural part of doing business.
Before I left reddit I was shut down for expressing the option that children shouldnt even be laboring to sell cookies, popcorn, or candy bars. It's all exploitative. Some people think this is character building.
I've seen the opinion before, in community college. I was assigned to read something, and it laid out a damn good argument for why working a register never taught anyone "life skills."
That's not entirely accurate. My first customer service jobs in high school taught me invaluable lessons about how douchey people can be to a kid slinging popcorn at a movie theater. I learned a great deal about how to deal with assholes with an inflated sense of importance. Above all I learned that I would never be like those assholes.
These are skills that I still use in my job today.
I agree. I worked McDonald's whilst I was at college. I learnt a huge amount about dealing with different types of people, both customers and staff!
A lot of people in the UK look down upon people working low tier service roles which I now strongly defend. It also taught me, as it did you, how stupid and ignorant an average person can be and I always try to keep that in mind not just for the actions of others, but my own.
I'm a "skilled" worker now, but should needs must, I'd be absolutely unopposed to going back to a job like McDonald's.
I used to joke that I'm against national service, but that everyone should be drafted to work two years in the service industry!
You can absolutely learn life skills from working a cash register provided you are doing more than just checking out and bagging. At the very least you should glean some basic customer service skills
With all due respect, fuck that. It would be one thing if they were forced to do that to support their families, but they're not. In 99% of cases they're doing it to support an activity they enjoy. For instance, the girl scouts of America is not a business and their activities are not free. Selling cookies is how they afford to do fun shit.
Do they really need to be selling junk to people to do fun shit? Can't the families and community support them without making them labor to sell some company's junk product for a pittance?
Can’t even get young people to vote, no chance in hell they would ever become organized enough to form a union. Besides, it shouldn’t fall on our young to protect themselves, that should be the role of leaders and we should apply immense pressure to make them do that.
They aren't even old enough to vote.
They are prevented from voting due to age discrimination. There's nothing physical or mental preventing most young people from voting, only cultural and legal.
Of course under 18 can’t vote in the US, I’m just saying that even those over 18 (~25) who can, don’t. They have the means to influence change and they can’t be bothered to do so, therefore how can we expect even less mature youth to organize something as complex as unified labor?
Voters in the US can affect very little change, either by referendum or through very local representation. At the state and national level, both parties are extremely conservative with one of them actively working to roll back progress and neuter elections.
So while we're in a situation where we are voting to preserve democracy, our young people are taught voting is how they affect change, when it doesn't do that in state or federal elections at all.
Currently progress is very slow, and may get overrun either by civil war or the climate crisis impacting populations.
Some labor unions dominate their industries, and make it super uncomfortable to hire non-union.
So it might be possible to unionize child labor, then force employers to only hire union kids, and then make them unaffordable as a means to discourage child labor practices. Kinda like taxing recreational drugs relentlessly to dissuade their use.
🤦♂️ Any company found abusing children should be immediately shut down permanently. No fines. No discussions. No deals. No second chances. Just immediately put out of business, all assets seized and sold off with the money distributed to the out of work employees.
Punish the people in addition to the business. Anyone who knew, or would have any reason to know, the age of the child should be fined if they are given prohibited duties and jailed if any harm comes to the child while tasked with prohibited duties.
Nothing will happen if a business is put out of business, rich people will just scoop up the resources and continue on with a small cost of doing business. All corporate and business practices that harm people (employees or the public) need to have the chance of jail time for business leadership to discourage it in the future. It doesn't even need to be draconian, just consistently enforced at the individual level.
Absolutely! 👍
The fact that minors need a union at all is the failing of the system. This is insane and the fact we can’t do anything to stop it is infuriating.