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I generally keep out of crypto discussions as I do not sufficiently understand it. But this event is very easy to understand. In the beginning of the article itself:
... approved last Wednesday a confusing reform to the Bitcoin Law at the request of Bukele’s government, which had no other option to receive the $1.4 billion credit agreed in December with the International Monetary Fund (IMF).
Thus, this move was forced on El Salvador by the IMF.
“Forced” is doing a lot of work here. I think it was El Salvador that decided it was worth to ditch btc in favor of getting actual rescue money.
Edit: it makes sense that Bukele just told Rubio they’d be happy to be the US’ offshore prison system. Seems they really need the money.
Bitcoin isn't good for making little purchases, firstly because it takes so long to get confirmations, if each block is 10 minutes and you need like 3 blocks to consider it confirmed that's 30 minutes. But that ties into the second issue which is that you probably don't want millions of tiny transactions on the Blockchain, you want them processed off-chain and then settled in bulk (to the Blockchain) periodically as a single transaction.
Finally someone who knows what theyre talking about, with an actual valid criticism.
Bitcoin is great for little transactions if you use the lightning network. Sending on the lightning network means instant payments with no confirmation required and absolutely tiny fees. And the only thing that shows up on the blockchain is the transactions to initially start using lightning network and to take your coins back off the lightning network. Transactions made over the lightning network aren't recorded anywhere other than maybe by the people transacting.
"Bitcoin is great if you don't use the block chain"
That's what you just said. So why even use it in the first place?
the lightning network still uses the blockchain, just less. it's acts like an immutable public bar tab you can't default on. once you have spent enough with another person that it is worth them conducting the transaction on chain then it does it. usually when fees are low too.
That is an extremely simplified explanation of how it works though, it is more complex than that.
Edit: another analogy i have just read is it's like cashing in at a casino. you put some money in the house (the blockchain) and get some chips, you go in and transact with loads of people, then when it's advantageous you can cash out and get your BTC on chain; to the house that is two transactions, cash in and then out, rather than a transaction for everyone you exchanged with on the network. that's probs a better analogy than the bar tab one... but again, oversimplified
bar tab is more accurate, casino is easier to understand.
the actual functionality doesn't really matter to the layperson though. basically, you put some of your bitcoin on the network (minimum amounts apply), and then you can spend that with very fast transactions and low fees. when you're ready you can send what you have back to the chain
Stil though, how well does that work with a rapidly fluctuating value of the bitcoin? Prices would have to be superfluid for external good to have known value of some sort.
Stability of the value of savings and currency seems crucial to using it for trade.
It'll settle eventually
Won’t the economy have to go flat (stop growing) since the supply of bitcoin is fixed? Otherwise the value of bitcoin will always be going up. Which leads to hoarding and speculating, which was part of the reason for dropping the gold standard.
Unrelated note: part of why humanity stopped making our money out of precious metals was because the metal was worth more and more while the dollar held steady. So people started shaving the edges off silver coins, and then recievers had to start weighing money at the time of transaction (which slowed it all down). Making money fungible was a huge advantage for commerce.
Bitcoin transactions feel a lot like having to double check that the coins you’re receiving are actually “real” and that you’ll be able to trade them later. The lighting network feels like a tab at the hardware store where anyone can skip town anytime they want.
When i stay stabilize i don't mean it will stay the same for ever. it will just become less volatile the more it is uptaken. Value should continue to go up as the total supply is finite but should do so in a more predictable manner similar to gold. Of course this requires it's widespread uptake as a currency.
Unrelated note: part of why humanity stopped making our money out of precious metals was because the metal was worth more and more while the dollar held steady. So people started shaving the edges off silver coins, and then recievers had to start weighing money at the time of transaction (which slowed it all down). Making money fungible was a huge advantage for commerce.
I'm not sure that's really analogous to bitcoin, sure you can spend subdivisions of bitcoins but you cant shave sats off and still pass off a shaved bitcoin as a full one. a bitcoin is a bitcoin and a bitcoin with shaved sats is a bitcoin minus those shaved sats.
The lighting network feels like a tab at the hardware store where anyone can skip town anytime they want.
except with the lightning network, if your customer "skip[s] town" with lightning you can take the tab (channel) to the bank (blockchain) yourself and still get your payment. Opening a lightning channel requires staking the value of the channel up front. you can get unspent sats back but once you've made a transaction on the network then those sats belong to the person who you sent them to. You can try and close a channel with an older version of the channels ledger to try and "revert" the payment but there are mechanisms in place to stop this. if someone does that to you you can just broadcast the up to date ledger to the network and then you get everything in the channel including unspent sats as a penalty.
at least that's how i understand it
You still use it as a settlement and security layer. The lightning network is made up of pairs of people that both lock money in a new account with a transaction. Both people get a fully signed copy of a second transaction to reclaim the money, but they don't publish it immediately. If they need to make a new transaction between each other, they just replace the second fully signed transaction with a new one that divides the money according to the new balance. They can do this as many times as they want for as long as they want, and they only have to make two transactions: one to start and one to stop. If anyone tries to cheat, the only thing they can do is publish an older version of that second transaction that favors them, but you have... I think a day or three, I forget, to publish a newer version that proves they cheated, and if you do, you get ALL the money even if some was owed to them, so cheating won't go well. The down side is you need a node that's always online or connects to the network frequently so you can be ready to catch a cheater.
To make a network, they use some fancy cryptography to send money to someone if and only if they send it (minus very, very, very small fees) to the next person in line towards the destination. If anyone in the chain refuses or fails to commit, the transaction fails and no money moves at all. Because it's all secured by the blockchain, you can trust that everyone both can and will complete the transaction exactly as requested, or the whole thing fails and nothing happens.
You realize "it's so energy and time consuming that we had to create a secondary layer to try and make it actually usable" isn't the defense you think it is, right?
i got back into bitcoin recently and decided to move the contents of my old wallet to a new SegWit one and look into using lightning.
To open a lightning channel i have to stake £170 up front though which is crazy, how are people in poorer countries supposed to do that?
or even here. poverty is on the rise, a lot of people are living hand to mouth and just having that kind of money lying around isnt a thing.
i like the idea of bitcoin but i worry it doesn't scale well.
Add to that that virtually nowhere accepts it. The value of bitcoin comes from its use as a currency. if it doesn't have that then it's entirely speculation.
oh well, i have £2k in there and i'm not turning it back into fiat. I'll spend it if i can or ride it all the way to 0 if that's the way it goes
edit: if BTC does hit $1m a coin as the hodlers hope then that would amount to $2000 to open a lightning channel (or more realistically $2400 as electrum wouldnt let me open a channel with the supposed minimum 0.002 BTC, i had to make it 0.0024). I hope that the minimum amount to open a channel will be updated long before that happens though, but i guess we'll see
if it doesn't have that then it's entirely speculation.
You are very close
Sounds like you can steal or fake things
IIRC, a deposit is made by two parties to create a lightning network channel that's enough to cover all transactions (kinda like a multi-sig escrow), and both parties have to sign-off on their balances after every transaction (the last balance signed by both parties is the only valid state). I think most people would use a custodial wallet where the custodian already has channels set up, and this would require trust in the custodian. Lightning networks didn't exist, and wasn't fully spec'd out the last time I looked into it though.
They could’ve solved that by making the block size larger, but instead did some weird ass replace-by-fee system.
I had a Libertarian try to tell me that this was going to revitalize El Salvador just a couple of weeks ago, lmao.
Not the greatest idea to transition to a currency where every single transaction requires the same amount of energy to power a mansion for a week.
Not promoting just saying that this is misinformation. Transactions are done in bulk and on the lightning network at a tiny fraction of what you suggest.
Edit: BTC itself can only process 8 or so transactions per second(hence the high energy demand per transaction), the actual number of monetary lightening network transactions (grouped up into a these large BTC transactions) is close to a million.
Didn't know it was that bad. Knew it was bad, but that's depressingly bad.
It’s absolutely bonkers to me that Libertarians think BTC is a better option that fiat bills.
This shit has the have been astroturfed or otherwise psyop’d.
Well their reserves doubled in value
Why isn't this being discussed on any of the crypto subreddits? This is all I could find. Somebody's not telling the truth:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1ihd9ek/el_salvador_buys_11_more_bitcoin_boosting/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1iflbk5/the_satoshi_statue_has_arrived_in_el_salvador_en/
Mods are probably preemptively blacklisting this article and similar articles to avoid inconvenient information reaching the cryptobros. From a cursory glance, both of those subs seem pretty overwhelmingly biased towards being pro-crypto.
It would hurt their feefees
the buttcoin sub is decent
Who could have predicted this
Bitcoin has gone up by at least 40k in the last three months, surely that must have made El Salvador a few pretty pennies.
It has but bukele's bitcoin fund is still a drop in the bucket compared to their GDP. I'm seeing they own 6,055 bitcoins, which is about 600 million dollars, to their GDP which is 34 billion.
Let's not get astray here.
The reason El Salvador stopped using Bitcoin as a legal tender is not because it's some sort of failed experiment (it had issues, but still), but due to continuous pressure of IMF interested in maintaining a US dollar-centric economy.
El Salvador is reliant on US dollars in its economy, which puts it under heavy US influence. Knowing Salvadoran currency wouldn't be strong, Nayib Bukele suggested an alternative option - risky, volatile, but free from pressure of other countries and strongly appreciating in the long run. IMF didn't like it, and that's where we are.
So, when you cheer Bitcoin not being legal tender anymore, you also cheer US and IMF projecting power over the country.
Its even funnier. They just straight up promised them a billion dollar loan on the condition that they abandon bitcoin.
In December, the government struck a $1.4 billion loan deal with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) that scaled back its bitcoin embrace after the lender urged officials to limit its exposure. The lender specifically advocated making acceptance of bitcoin voluntary for the private sector, which is spelled out in the hastily-approved law.
Hot damn why is this not the headline we are seeing
Thats what im wondering, because thats the blog post headline i first saw.
Well, also, they just cut a deal with Marco Rubio to be America’s prison, so they must’ve figured that was more lucrative than Bitcoin and continuing to agitate the US by challenging the dollar was creating unnecessary friction.
Exactly. The title is misleading af
They were forced to stop using Bitcoin as legal tender by external parties. The question people should be asking is why? And the answer is not that it was a failed experiment.
Looking forward to them establishing monero as a legal tender
The only surprise here is that they stuck with it for as long as they did.
The IMF wouldn't give them a credit unless they stopped forcing people to accept Bitcoin as payment, which almost no one was using anyway.
officials ensure that the government will continue betting on this cryptocurrency, whose price currently exceeds $100,000.
The government, she assured, will continue buying bitcoin and having reserves in this cryptocurrency. According to the National Bitcoin Office, El Salvador has 6,050 bitcoins worth $634.8 million. “President Bukele continues buying bitcoin, we have a Bitcoin Office, we have the Bitcoin Law, bitcoin can be used in El Salvador.
They're going to have the US by the balls like Saudi Arabia when bitcoin crosses $1mm/coin
The government, she assured, will continue buying bitcoin and having reserves in this cryptocurrency. According to the National Bitcoin Office, El Salvador has 6,050 bitcoins worth $634.8 million. “President Bukele continues buying bitco
They are still keeping the mass reserves just not forcing it to be accepted as legal tender in stores. Before if someone wanted to pay in Bitcoin you had to accept it, now you don't have to.
The problem with any new kind of currency no matter what it is will always be controlled and manipulated by the wealthiest individuals who will flood their wealth into that new system.