Gosh this comment section... You guys can use LGBTQ+ if you prefer, just like OP/the article can use 2SLGBTQIA+. Personally, I just say "queer community" most of the time. Use whatever, but people going off about "omg they keep adding letters!!" pisses me off. Haven't you heard anything about what the queer community is going through currently, specifically trans and non-binary people? So what if we want more letters, even a number! Each time sometime decides to whine about the gay initialism we just add another letter :)
this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2023
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I was thinking that whenever I see the acronym expand that more groups are banding together for acceptance.
In any case, I just found out about the Toronto No Space for Hate stuff now through this post. I'll probably go this weekend if it's still happening it says till the 25th.
If the initialism is the most significant part of this story for you, just fuck off and find someone other place to slowly cultivate your nascent fascism. I know a fucking protest you could join.
Is there a way to follow what's going on so that I can plan to be at counter protests when this stuff happens? I need to travel anywhere from 150 to 300 km (one way), so I can't just show up on a whim.
I'm working on a travel and accommodation budget for this kind of thing, but just because I'm retired doesn't mean I can be 1.5-3 hours away from home without some kind of planning.
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adding more numbers and letters only serves to cheapen and lessen the impact of an already hard fought for and carefully agreed on acronym
Did you reach that conclusion through a survey among those who "already hard fought for and carefully agreed on acronym"? It's the same hard-fighting community as always that promotes inclusivity changes to the nomenclature inside the movement
I could ask the same of your statement, I remember when it was just LGB, and the amount of infighting and name calling everyone went through when new letters were added or proposed, but the general sentiment was the same whenever that argument came up. ”there are too many letters being added and we feel this cheapens our movement we've worked so hard for by allowing other groups to ride on the coattails of what we've worked for"
Now of course that's gatekeeping, and forging that path is of course going to allow others to travel it as well, which is perfectly fine. However let me use an extreme example to show you what many were afraid of at that time, say it at one point became 2SLGBTQIARE+&ODM
This is ridiculous right? How is the average person, the person you're trying to convince to accept the movement, going to remember all that? How are you supposed to form a cultural identity if you keep rebranding over and over to the point where you have to be deeply immersed to understand the nomenclature?
Thus the + was added, being all inclusive and finally seeming to be a change that not everyone and their mother was up in arms about. To answer your question, that is how I came to my conclusion, having lived through it and put a whole lot of my soul and energy into this movement I feel pretty confident to say that LGBTQIA+ is just fine.
If you disagree with that, well then you do, I can't stop you, but hopefully you can see where I'm coming from
I could ask the same of your statement
Maybe it's my bubble, but everywhere you look nowadays the term is used ostensibly, even if not consistently, and almost nobody really has any qualms with it? For example: Vancouver's Pride (https://www.vancouverpride.ca), Calgary's Pride (https://calgarypride.ca/pride-2023/) and so on.
but the general sentiment was the same whenever that argument came up
Strangely I remember it differently.
How is the average person, the person you’re trying to convince to accept the movement, going to remember all that?
The shorter acronyms still exist, they're not banned. If the layperson doesn't remember all of them, it's alright.
How are you supposed to form a cultural identity if you keep rebranding over and over to the point where you have to be deeply immersed to understand the nomenclature?
That "over and over" happened a few times in 35 years, and so far it seems the cultural identity is still going strong. So no issue there so far.
but hopefully you can see where I’m coming from
It's not that I don't get it, it's not unreasonable that you're bothered by a hard acronym getting harder.
Saying that it's ridiculous or that it lessens the movement is a stronger statement though, one that the movement doesn't seem to agree with. It's not the government that is coming up with this, they're just listening to activism.
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"They are missing letters" would be the correct use of "they/them" pronouns. "They/them" isn't a new pronoun, its a signal that you can use "they" OR "them" wherever appropriate. Good on you for trying, though. Cheers.
You? Refer to me as God.... That is pronounce
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You can just say queer if you prefer to, or LGBTQ+. And LGBT was coined in 1988 so we added like 5 letters in 35 years. Is that so hard?
Yes - eleven-syllable references are wildly excessive. Especially when the consistent alternative is one. Seeing all these meandering additions and substitutions, mostly in very recent times, is actively unhelpful to a movement that strives for solidarity. You don't get that by rattling off every sub-group, as if anyone who's not mentioned by name is unwelcome.
I see, not hard for me so maybe it's the curse of knowledge.
is actively unhelpful to a movement that strives for solidarity
The movement clearly disagrees, so... I guess your advice won't come to fruition. Anyway, you're free to pick your own terms as long as it's in good faith.
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two-spirited, it's a first nations thing in Canada, and maybe the USA
Is that not just transgender? It's not a different gender just because they're native American, is it? I don't know much about it.
It's a different cultural tradition
Okay but nothing else in the acronym is a cultural tradition. It's a weird fit.
Even people adding stripes to the flag are missing the point. A rainbow is a spectrum. You're already in there.
Yeah yeah yeah, the very initial intent was one-to-one, but then they dropped a color from that flag, because they couldn't get fabric in the right color. That didn't mean the group was kicked out!
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If you like, you can use QUILTBAG as a fun re-ordering (though it doesn't include Two Spirit folks, unfortunately), or GSRM (Gender, Sexuality, Romantic Minorities) as more of a catch-all term
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Approximately the same thing that was wrong with POC that led to BIPOC. Prefixing 2S centres the First Nations experience which has added intersectional layers, just as prefixing BI to POC centres the black and indigenous experiences which have added intersectional layers
In case you are wondering about I and A, that's intersex and asexual/aromantic
Arguably the (first) Q letter covers everyone, but also there are people who grew up with it as a slur used against them who aren't keep on taking the word back.
QUILTBAG was a cute rearrangement when I was in uni two decades ago. LGBTQ+ is not the oldest form either. G used to come before L, etc