Every platform and app I've seen does a piss poor job of explaining what federation is and how to sign up. "Wtf is mastodon.social?, Why is this one in German?, Why can't I login after signing up?" New users just get confused and give up.
this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024
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it's been better marketed, and people struggle with the concept of federation and picking a server. and I guess the invite-only, artificial exclusivity strat has actually paid off for them initially, unlike for Google+.
also, a matter of culture. I've seen many newcomers complain about how some long time users act as HOA, reminding everyone to act according to the long-standing rules. many people of colour have experience many forms of racist behaviour, too, which has driven some communities away.
oh, and the federation/defederation business sometimes gets way too messy, which [cynic mode on] makes it difficult for people who want their Personal Brand™ to gain as many followers as possible over the entire network.
people struggle with the concept of federation and picking a server
This is a HUGE reason. I didn't know when I first signed up for Lemmy that I was on what is essentially a tankie instance. I didn't know when I signed up for Pixelfed that I wasn't going to be able to see shit because the first server I signed up for wasn't really federated with anyone and I've mostly given up on it. I still can't see a bunch of stuff on Mastodon without switching through several accounts with no rhyme or reason.
I've said before that I obviously like it here because I'm using the services, but it's not easy. Most people don't know about the fediverse, and most of those that do want to be passive about maintaining their social media. Most of the fediverse is built for nerds.
Language filter in bluesky is much better than Mastodon as well
Mastodon relies on users setting the language their post is in manually, so if someone posts in two languages and forgets to switch between them, they don't get filtered out. I know there are some other pieces of software that switch it automatically, I'm fairly sure Calckey automatically recognized the language you were writing in.
I already toggle the Mastodon settings to ensure that I got the feeds to the language I want (I want English only) and I still got feeds on different languages such as German and French
again, if the person who is making the post doesn't change the setting, it won't get filtered. if they type a message in German but the post's language option is set to English (which I think is the default on some major instances), it won't get filtered out.
you can usually check what their post's setting is by starting writing a reply to them, as the language option of your post will switch to the one they post in.
That is why Mastodon is hard to get mainstream because not everyone wants extra effort to do this. Even, Twitter, threads and bluesky much better to filter their language content
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You want the bullshit "Mastodon is too complicated and hard to use!" answer or the real answer?
BlueSky has rich people behind it.
They're the same answer.
You need money to market applications to users. Bluesky is sold the same way that Twitter is, your favorite moron celebrity might hit like or retweet on your stuff.
They aren't really the same answer.
People suggest that Mastodon is too complicated for the average knuckle-dragging moron to use (and it might be, but frankly I consider that a pro, not a con) because it has "servers", as if the entire point of the internet wasn't to have a global network of communication across a multitude of clients and servers. Do these same people think the concept of websites and email are also too complex for the regular person? Maybe... But again, if the regular person is that fucking dumb do we really want have them in our community at all?
What's more, BlueSky is supposedly federated (or "will be"(tm)), and as such it'll have to deal with all of the same challenges around federation that Mastodon deals with, and people are kidding themselves if they think otherwise.
Otherwise I agree with your last sentence. Social media is about money and fame, first and foremost. The average person will always go where the most money and fame are concentrated.
Tbf the internet is entirely comprised of like 6 websites if you ask the average Joe, and I'm damn inclined to agree as someone who remembers webrings fondly and misses geocities (it's like the bell curve meme lol, and btw yes I know about neocities I'm just sleeping on it).
But I agree, if they can email they can mastodon, it's the same shit.
It has an algorithm that puts content in front of you, unlike Mastodon where it only puts what you ask for in your feed. I'm convinced that if Mastodon populated people with low following count's feed with random posts it wouldn't have bled as many users as it did.
Unpopular opinion here, but: as opposed to other twitter clones like Hive Social and such, that also look sleek and are simple, but didn't go anywhere, Bluesky did manage to attract a sizeable crowd of creative and talented open source indie devs that are passionate about it and build cool stuff on atproto. Whether it's custom feeds or star sign labelers or alternative clients that add more features or entirely new appviews like the oekaki board PinkSea, you get the feeling it is a pretty vibrant ecosystem and this has sustained it all these months.
While this is true for the Fediverse as well, I think it's fair to say that there have been rumblings here about lack of direction and proper stewardship of the Fediverse and if you want this place to succeed you can't just sweep it under the rug, shrug your shoulders and say "well, people who pick Bluesky over Mastodon are just stupid".
57 different 3rd party apps is probably a good start. Mastodon has to be easy to on-board and it isn’t for someone with no technical understanding what domains, servers or instances are. To that group Bluesky makes sense. You are signing up for Bluesky. Try to onboard that group to mastodon and they don’t understand if they are on mastodon.social or mastodon.world or any other instance.
Why would they be on one of those fringe services with less users than bluesky? That’s what a non expert understands
Sign up process is easier. No existential decisions to be made to get started.
People want to leave X, but they still want the same old, rather than new stuff to make things better as a whole. They don't want to have to do this "pick a server" thing, they want to have an algorithm spoonfeed them popular content, and it would be best for them to have to put in zero extra effort. In Masto you have to put in the hashtags to get found, and search for and follow people and hashtags to find stuff you want, and essentially DIY-ing your feed seems to be too much work for people.
All those federated platform will only become popular if the backend is dumb and the frontend is smart, i.e. you create your account on a frontend but can use the same credentials to connect via another frontend and no matter which frontend you connect to, all content for the platform is accessible to you, there's no admin having control over your experience, only people offering different UI experiences. Federation/defederation/deciding to host NSFW content, that's all taken care of behind the scene just like on Reddit, for the user they're just using Lemmy via frontend X or Y and they decide what communities and users they want to block.
Bluesky is federated and mit licensed
This practically means nothing tbh. Social networks when they gain economies of scale due to the network effect will effectively shed all the pretense of open source and open platform etc.
We've seen it with Facebook, Google, etc, during the 2010's with closing of chat standards and destruction of XMPP. Reddit 3rd Party API access is another example of this. We'll see it again.
None of that applies here, can you give a specific method?
I'm talking about Mastodon and Lemmy and such since that's what OP is complaining about
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Mastodon is a pain in the ass to get signed up for anyone under room temperature IQ, so, like, most of Twitter's users, even the ones smart enough to leave.
@Sunshine I've shared my thoughts a couple times in similar threads 1 and 2, but to summarize:
One reason is because I think other protocols have some advantages. AT is better end user ease of use wise, and plans to let you control your account via a keypair (already possible with your own PDS). Nostr is more heavily decentralized and considerably more flexible than the other two. That can siphon off existing users or have new users drawn to those spaces. Not to say that ActivityPub doesn't also have its own advantages too, but everybody has different preferences and there's now more choice.
There's also some Activity Pub specific toxicity issues. Too aggressive defederation leads to a point where you can't communicate with most people, and there's some opinions in the space that have turned some people away.
But of course things go up and down, and are never a strait line. I'm guessing all three big protocols will continue to grow, and as they get more interconnected everybody wins, and even if Activity Pub has hit a slump the ecosystem of people you can talk to using it has grown 10x+.
Outside if summarizing my previous takes, there have been some new(ish) things I've seen that don't quite sit right. Things from the top down like the social web director refusing to go to conferences that people from other protocols will be present and encouraging people to not even talk about other protocols. Or - anicdotally - seeing random users happy that the influxes are going to others because they don't want 'normies' on Activity Pub or declaring anybody still using Twitter/X a Nazi sympathizer if not an outright Nazi. If the Activity Pub scene is getting really protectionist it could start also having a negative effect.
Again, overall I expect it to continue trending upwards, and there's a plethora of factors that are unrelated to anything negative regarding Activity Pub's community, but the above (and previous two posts) are the stuff I figured worth bringing up and potentially factors in why ActivityPub has seen weaker adoption compared to the other two big ones more recently.
I can only assume BlueSky feels more familiar.
Mastodon requires a bit of effort, lacking an algorithm to drive content toward users, so you have to do a bit more yourself.
I have a friend who has had a mastodon instance since it was gnu social, and there are two reasons I stopped using it.
First, the UI sucks. He installed 3 or 4 different skins and they were all barely usable. I don't want or need something flashy, xfce is my favorite windows manager, but it needs to at least work and not be confusing.
Second, the people suck. It went from being okay to by the time I left I don't think I was seeing any exchanges that didn't have antisemitism or racism.
We need a community owned centralized service. I don't think the mastodon model is a good one for social media, it's too complicated.
People like simple and easy to use.
Bluesky got that, fediverse in general don't have that.
Bluesky is federated
Yeah that's why I said fediverse in general.
Because people will choose convenience over their vey own survival. Also, in this case, they apparently don’t see a problem with leaving Twitter because it’s MAGA to join BS which is backed by MAGA money. Convenience über alles. Ethics be damned. I’m fine with people like that not joining the fediverse.
Because people will choose convenience over their vey own survival.
Can you guys help explain it to someone completely inexperienced?
I had Twitter but only used it for following music venues to see upcoming events and bars for happy hour updates. I have a Mastodon account but only played with it for a few minutes because i didn't really get it. I don't understand following a person. What can one person have to say that i would care enough about to download an app. What am i missing?
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I think it’s much more difficult to find people to follow. I personally struggle a lot, and will likely either gave up the micro-blogging system or try another platform. It was great on Twitter before Musk bought it, but since I left, I have yet to find an alternative.
Simplicity.
What is with all these wall of text answers guys?
Twitter people like Twitter and Twitter man for making it. Twitter now not Twitter is now X and no more Twitter man. Twitter people not like TeslaSpace man. Twitter man make BlueSky.
No elephant needed to make this story work. Remember: twitter brain cannot handle too many characters.
Star power. High production values. Less complex (appears to be more centralized, immediately easy to conceptualize as "twitter but not right wing")
Americans love to pretend they are cowboys. In reality they love centralised power and bureaucracy. They are deeply afraid of each other so they flock to platforms that pretend to be for freedom, but is actually highly regulated by centralised power. That’s why they love tech-oligarchs that pretend to be self made geniuses. It allows them to fantasise about freedom to succeed and submit to power at the same time.
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It's because of the connotation with an overrated metal band of the same name.
/s for the overly serious
Why is anyone usi5any of them? They're all clogged toilets overflowing the same shit onto the flower.
I wrote an article on this last night.
Since bluesky is mit licensed, what's to stop a fork if something goes wrong?
what's to stop a activitypub and atproto compatibility?
Mastodon has been around since 2016 and has 804k MAU.
The platform has 57 third party apps.
The platform is decentralized and has community ran servers.
Are you asking about "people" or "nerds"? People prefer Bluesky due to its simplicity and momentum. There are more popular outlets using it. If you're assuming that People would prefer the complexity of the Fediverse and instances, if you think People know what a decentralized community run server is, you're a "nerd" (for lack of a better term, I'm sorry).
The battle has always been the same: Windows v. Apple, Android v. iOS, SMS Twitter v. App Twitter. Some people prefer flexibility and investing time in making things work the way they want (Nerds). Some people want an out of the box product that's well designed and efficient (People).
Fifty Seven Third Party Apps is not a selling point - that's called anxiety inducing fragmentation. Some people want to walk down the grocery store aisle and choose between 57 options for toilet paper and some people just want "good", "better", "best". The reality is that most people just want to be told what to do. They have too much shit going on in their lives to care about "decentralization".
Mastodon will never challenge well financed closed or semi-open platforms. As it's designed, it's apparent it never intended to. It will continue to grow at a slow rate as an alternative. Hopefully, the fediverse is realized and you can choose to host your own server and gain access to other social platforms.
The reality is that this stuff costs money. In the near future, you'll have the same three choices with social media as we do with other services: ad-subsidized, subscription, self-hosted. Anything with ads is going to have an algorithm. Anything with a subscription is going to have a board of directors. Selfhosting comes with a steep learning curve.