As someone who deleted Facebook in 2012 and has zero intention of going back to any of Meta’s products… I don’t see a need to defederate and would prefer not to.

Hear me out… maybe i just am still figuring this whole fediverse thing out but I don’t see how it can be bad.

1. If there are ads or otherwise bad content on threads, I’m not going to see it unless I actively go follow treads accounts. Like I still have trouble finding/following content across federated instances, basically going there, getting the name of a community, coming back here, and plugging it in.

2. Any data they could mine about me they could get anyway since it’s either publicly available or not. They could just stave the fediverse under some other domain/IP that doesn’t even need to federate.

3. In the event they try to Embrace, Extend, Extinguish, they would just change the activity pub protocol in some way, at which point we would have two competing standards. Open source ActivityPub, as used by Mastadon, Lemmy, and the like… and Meta’s ActivityPub… if we don’t use theirs their extended (bad) version of the protocol, they essentially fork and we don’t get to see their content. So we’re just going to defederate now so they don’t have that carrot to dangle over us? Why not just know if they starts fundamentally changing the protocol we just let them break themselves back off from us? We don’t lose anything we aren’t giving up already by defederating.

The ONLY thing that fundamentally changes for me is I don’t get to follow any Threads accounts from the relative safety of the fediverse. At which point I probably have to bite the bullet and spin up my own dedicated instance so I can chose to not defederate. All that said I’m more concerned about this on the Mastadon side of things, as like you said it probably wouldn’t even integrate well with the Reddit style fediverse.

Personally if I wanted to interact with Threads, I would make a Threads account. It's free, I already have 100 accounts across various websites, so what is 1 more.

I think defederation is a wise choice here.

I feel strongly against corporate involvement with the Fediverse so I'm going to have a pronounced reaction to it.

Hell no to federating with Threads. Yeah they're a different platform and they have not joined the Fediverse yet, but they're using ActivityPub and they could do all kinds of nasty things with it (as evil profit mongering corporations always do).

For future reference, say no to any kind of corporate influence.

I knew it was right decision on my part to start using lemm.ee and stop using .world

Not a lemm.ee user but I think we should all defederate from threads. The fediverse is supposed to provide a safe space from these corporations, not welcome them with open arms, especially Facebook.

Defederate! For many people migrating from reddit was, in part, to get away from big tech, this would ruin lemmy imo

You know, I was going to be a wait and see vote. After seeing the justification and a better understanding of the consequences, I agree with defederation. As much as I think Lemmy has room to grow, it should not be via Facebook and obviously fuck ads. I stand with King @sunaurus

Facebook, aka Meta, is cancer. The best way of dealing with cancer is eliminating them at their roots.

Failing that, excising cancerous tissue before it metatasizes is common sense. Even if it's ultimately benign (which I doubt, given their track record), given the dangers that inaction would cause, it's best to preemptively exorcise it out of the Fediverse.

If you are curious, here are all the instances that have blocked threads so far

https://fba.ryona.agency/?domain=threads.net

[sidenote] you can see who already defederated here

I wonder how many shill accounts are actively trying to sway the tide of opinion around here, especially during all of this uncertainty, excitement, and vulnerability.

Honestly curious, like if we could see a number for, "traffic increase in troll farm activity" or some shit.

If we downvote, then what's the point of migrating here from Reddit? Facebook and other mainstream social medias can pour funds to create their own “universe.”

Apps and website that are basically performing mass surveillance (incl. voice) should be blocked in my opinion. It's already insane they are legally allowed. I am all for an open Internet, but I choose not to use Facebook, Threads and all kind of apps which do the same. They should not be able to use or index my responses on other platforms. Besides ignoring my personal space making money of it as well whilst I get nothing. I know that's already difficult to prevent, but we can make it harder for them to do so.

Defederation. BIG NO to corporations in the federation 🙂

Please defederate

I’m in the minority here but I don’t want to defederate yet.

One of the biggest benefits of federation is that it allows me to interact with brand accounts on my own terms. With Twitter, I often found that the best way to get support was to contact the brand's account directly. I can't do that on Lemmy if we defederate.

And during major news events I want the up-to-the-minute coverage you find on major news outlets’ accounts.

But being over here on Mastodon and Lemmy, ideally, I can get that interaction on my own terms instead of being subjected to The Algorithm.

If this is not possible due to protocol limitations, or it becomes onerous to block spam - and the tools to do so haven’t caught up - then I’d be in favor of defederation. Not preemptively.

I already left Lemmy.world because those assholes refused to defederate, don't make me have to set up my own instance 🤦

All I want is a free internet, of the people, by the people, that bans corporate dystopian bullshit. I am not asking much.

noooo....this is my happy place...thats a hard pass on anything meta

<3

I certainly have no love for Meta, so I don't really mind just defederating from them on principle. Plus it won't matter much since, as you said, Threads is more of a Mastodon adjacent thing. There wouldn't make much difference even if you did federate with them, at least at first.

That being said though, if you do want to consider federating with them in the future a thing that would be important to me is that they would have to not be the only big corporate instance. I do not like the power imbalance between Meta and the current fediverse. If ActivityPub becomes a standard protocol that lots of companies start using and Meta keeps their spy garbage on their own instance then maybe it would turn out alright to federate with them. If it's just Meta then I have absolutely zero trust that they won't abuse their power to make our lives worse no matter how innocent they seem at the time.

Thanks for posting this and sharing your thoughts on this big topic. I voted up as I think it’s best to stay away from anything Meta related. It would ruin Lemmy. I like that you’re taking a logical view of the whole situation.

I'm for federating with any instance that doesn't exist explicitly to break this community rules. I turned blind eye to not defederating Exploding Heads because Lemm.ee is a small server that doesn't host any big communities they could interfere with. I thought it was an indication that it's an instance that would allow me to curate my experience.

This is a European server, it's fair to assume most of the users here are protected by GDPR. The talk of scraping data seems like a nonsense, Meta can do it without federating. And as Elon learned, closing your APIs means other entities will do web scraping which puts more stress on your infrastructure.

I don't understand how most people here are for open standards, interoperability and the moment their protocol of choice gets traction they drop everything and opt to create their walled garden, except with 5 dozens of people. This is it, you've literally won. I guess some people will keep fighting big corporations for any reason on principle. That's ok but not something most people are interested in.

There's a lot of talk about how XMPP was killed by Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. I'm convinced 99% people posting that same blog post that sells opinions as facts, haven't actually lived through it. XMPP was embraced, then Google and Facebook got bored, dropped it and moved on. They did not poison the protocol in any way.

If Meta tries to extend Activity Pub in a malicious way then that's the point you defederate. If they get bored of Activity Pub and move on you have lost nothing, you probably gained more users than you would if you didn't federate. I don't believe it will come to this, EU Digital Markets Act means more platforms will have to open up, other commercial platforms will join in to capitalize on that and we'll end up with consortiums coming up with reasonable changes to standards. If not they'll get bonked by EU regulators with even more laws.

Finally, it's a shame that we've done this vote via Lemmy post. It has hit "All" view for a lot of people who are not part of this instance and probably irreversibly poisoned this discussion.

Defederate

I mean the beauty of the fediverse is that if you INSIST on being able to access Threads via a Lemmy account, you can, even if all the big instances defederate. IMO the risks/downsides outweigh any possible benefit in light of the fact that defederation doesn’t remove access for anyone, just restricts it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish

Also threads.net should be the ActivityPub domain, when they show you how you will be able to view user profiles on other instances it's using threads.net domain name.