If someone really wants to use the contribution of the expelled maintainers they can just make their own fork. Part of the Free in FOSS is the freedom to associate or not associate with contributors.
this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2024
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I get that it's a nice daydream to think of open source projects as existing in some kind of independent, ethereal vacuum just because the code is out there and accessible from any place on Earth. But every software project is (mostly?) dependent on the jurisdiction in one country, in this case it's the US, and so their laws about sanctions and so on apply. And yes, this means that unless conflicts/wars between nations happen to cease, that we will eventually have completely separated blocks of politics/culture/military and also IT. Globalization is over. China will have their own stuff, Russia will have their own stuff, and US+EU will have their own stuff. And none of those countries should continue using high-tech products made by the other because they could be sabotaged and it might be hard to find, so it's best to not use them at all and just cook your own stuff. It's unfortunate, but bound to happen in the current state of the political world.
I'm out of the loop, what's the recent Linux drama? If you don't wanna type it out, you can point me in the right direction. Thanks. :)
Torvalds kicked out a bunch of Russia-based kernel maintainers.
For additional context, this was not a choice, but a requirement. The Linux Foundation is US based, and Torvalds is a US citizen. This was required due to current US sanctions against Russia, and was not just some sort of "Russia bad" thing from Torvalds that a lot of people are framing it as.
and was not just some sort of "Russia bad" thing from Torvalds
The way he announced it and responded to the critics very much made it seem like that. He legitimately needs to shut the fuck up and get a PR person to talk in his stead.
this was not a choice, but a requirement
It has been framed as such, but no evidence has been given that it was a requirement
Hasn't changed my view much. I already knew Linux was a company that has a legal presence in the US and so would be subject to their laws. The only real surprise is that it's taken so long to action this particular set of sanctions.
I do think the announcement was poorly handled - it should have been explained either before or immediately afterwards to cut back on the conjecture. The git notice only said that these contributors' names had been removed from the credits, not that they'd been stopped from contributing completely. Any company, including Linux, that does something they know is going to be contentious like this should bloody well get ahead of that curve and put the facts out.
The world is at war. It's not a bloody world war as we've seen before, but it is nation against nation by other means. FOSS is used so widely it is absolutely a target and nobody can be so idealistic that they cannot see the conflict, nor not know that it's constantly being attacked. Where you live does matter. I wish that wasn't the case - I truly do, but it's naive in the extreme to pretend otherwise.
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I think the prestige of "maintainers" and contributions/control are what is being torn down. Anyone anywhere is still welcome to contribute, they are simply limited from direct control. They can still fork at any time, anyone can. Getting people to follow your fork is another thing entirely, and your open source code will still likely be incorporated directly or indirectly. The only thing that has changed is the misguided prestige that has grown around the project and is not a required or relevant part of the project as a whole.
There was more drama? I didn't even notice. They're always doing drama.
From what I understand this wasn't a decision dictated by sanctions nor was there any strongarming. Otherwise it would've happend way earlier.
I also think splitting politics and literally anything else doesn't work and is something people who benefit from the discussion (or lack therof) made up.
Nothing is devoid of global politics.
@Artemis_Mystique@lemmy.ml Views on the idea, no. But it confirmed my opinion that the current socio-economic system is unfriendly to FLOSS
I just wanted to say that I have the same questions, and it's a relief to see it posted by someone with more courage. I'm too ignorant to contribute to the discussion though. I don't know how a government or private entity could pressure a FOSS project in this way, unless that pressure was put on the project's git platform. At which point the repo just moves elsewhere.
FOSS does not mean:
- Community owned: Linux is owned by the Linux Foundation, a legal entity of the United States and subject to it's laws.
- Obliged to accept all contributions: The owner is free to accept or reject contributions for any reason.
Nothing changed except some people are no longer responsible for maintaining parts of the source tree. Their delegated power to accept contributions was removed. They can still propose changes, but they will be reviewed by others who aren't subject aren't at risk of Russian state influence.
This isn't saying they've done anything wrong, or that they are currently under state influence, but now that they no longer have maintainer privileges the chance of the FSB knocking on their door has probably dropped 90%.
No
It's banning contributors but not contributions themselves. So there must be inconvenience but somewhat effective workarounds. That could be fun to see unfold.
Although why would anyone from Russia even consider helping a project which sees them as lesser
But that's not what happened. If the lawyers are saying that some open source groups can't work with open source groups in Russia, as Linus indicated, that doesn't mean either group dislikes the other group. I don't think this is a question of animosity.
I'm not concerned that they followed the best advice of their lawyers to respond to the legal and political challenges that currently exist.
I am concerned that hostile nation states (define those as you will) have made supply chain attacks (remember the xz Utils backdoor) so common that actions like this or worse are becoming necessary and that open source, globally contributed software could be at risk.
This does very little to protect against supply chain attacks.
Your example shows that too.
Increasing modularity and reducing complexity of software seem to be the right way to that end. Plan9, GNU Hurd, Minix3 are interesting in that context.
Everything be it software or anything else is beholden only to those who is the highest bidder. Being FOSS doesn't change anything. This has been true for some time now that Linux and TLF is duty bound to businesses running it.
It had been covert till now, it is the overtness of this action which is surprising to most. I for one am surprised it didnt happen sooner.