Capitalism only does the right then when it doesn't cost them. As soon as there's a real cost, doing the right thing goes down the drain.
this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2024
287 points (99.3% liked)
News
23655 readers
2526 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Capitalism didn't start accepting women, blacks, latinos, and LGBTQ+ because they are humans with intrinsic value to their lives simply for existing.
No, not at all.
Capitalism started accepting women, blacks, latinos, and LGBTQ+ because they realized they were leaving money on the table.
Some of those people capitalism was rejecting might be good workers, and if they're a good worker, they might spend money, and if they spend money, the capitalists want them spending their money on their businesses.
Companies really started marketing to women once women were allowed to have their own bank accounts. Coincidence? Hardly.
Once the same thing starts losing them money? It's out the window.
Replace capitalism with humans
I mean, sure, that's easily arguable, but capitalism is currently the only economic system that incentivizes human greed and argues that human greed can be used for good.
How are we supposed to ignore a system that celebrates and rewards some of humanities worst vices?
capitalism is currently the only economic system
The thing to consider is that well-developed, critially thinking humans should be weighing the cost of their decisions. I mean it's in the bible ffs so all these right wingnuts SHOULD be paying attention.
Luke 14:28-30
“But don’t begin until you count the cost. For who would begin construction of a building without first calculating the cost to see if there is enough money to finish it? Otherwise, you might complete only the foundation before running out of money, and then everyone would laugh at you. They would say, ‘There’s the person who started that building and couldn’t afford to finish it!’
I'm past 40 and I've never seen so much liberated hate and intolerance. I'm pretty disgusted by the state of the world. Thank capitalism.
Thank religion.
Thank capitaligion!
I’ll accept that.
Capitalism evolved from Calvinism (see Max Weber), so the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
A big reason religious hate can still do this in a society that’s been trending more secular is a bunch of old white dudes with moral ideals from the 50s own the media companies
This kind of discrimination is literally anti-capitalist. If maximizing profit is the goal, refusing someone for any reason unrelated to how good a worker they'd be (a category everything in the HRC falls under) is counter-productive.
However, if excluding a minority, creates better financial relationships with the majority consumer base, it is in their interest to drop the minority. Capitalism only cares about what seems to maximize profit, and protect it, and if that is benefited by some form of exclusion, that is what will be done.
The vast majority of consumers of the vast majority of companies' products are completely in the dark about the demographic makeup of its workforce, so even the possibility of this being a factor is minuscule.
Right up until there is a media campaign selling outrage about how straight white people are getting unfairly ignored for unqualified black people, and foreigners.
When was the last time such a thing happened directed at a specific company?
Are you being disingenuous here? Are you intentionally ignoring the media driven campaigns about things like DEI initiatives, the decades of lies about how affirmative action work, etc.? You know, the ones that have gone from being popular, to being one of the most common talking points for the right wing, in the past decade? The one that started calling out specific government offices first, then universities, then tech companies, moved onto big box stores with target, etc.? The one that has caused people to go into stores and start trashing the place? The one that has inspired a torrent of threats against these entities, and their employees? The one that has caused multiple mass shooters to ad things like DEI to their list grievances that convinced them to be a terrorist? The one that has been made to open the door for it to be a point of legislation? The one that is going on as we speak?
These companies were never our allies, fair weather opportunists only willing to say they value us so long as it costs them nothing. I remember the few businesses that would openly support lgbt causes back in the early 90s back when public support was not on our side. These cowardly corpos today get a tiny whiff of fascist whining and immediately throw us under the nearest bus.
Adult lgbtq people are jaded enough against this, but I think about the lgbtq kids who don’t understand why this is happening. And will learn the hard way.
It was Matthew Shepherd’s death that made me an activist, but it’s shit like this that keeps me going.
the kids are busy getting their politics from tiktok lmao ain't no way they understand what's happening let alone why in relation to what has come before
I said “jaded” not “nihilist” but whatever
Ford, Harley- Davidson and Lowe’s are among the companies that announced they would no longer participate in the Corporate Equality Index.
Meanwhile, here are the ones that did well on the Corporate Equality Index link.
I've always been critical of corporations ""supporting"" LGBTQ+ rights. Not because I'm opposed to those rights, but because they're doing it for nefarious reasons.
Companies supporting LGBQ matters is a good litmus test for society's overall progress. Rainbow capitalism should be looked at with skepticism, but it does mean something.
Litmus is the word but yes, youre right.
Companies supporting LGBT matters is a good litheness test
Then they're often obese as fuck, lol
Fixed. It was a long day at work.
Seriously.... Who gives a fuck if a good thing is being done because it makes someone money vs making someone happy? At the end of the day, the good thing happened. That's a win. We live in a capitalist society, this should be a very common concept good or not.
Like seriously, who gives a shit if rainbow capitalism was for making money? It absolutely helped at least some (if not many) people feel seen and accepted.
"I would take this vaccine but someone created it because it would make them money so I'm critical"
In what world does that make sense??? As long as you understand WHY they do what they do (thus keeping yourself from being convinced they actually do care lmao), then its all good and take advantage of the good thing as it happens.
I mean... I give a fuck, the intention behind the action is just as important as the action itself.
You argue we should be grateful because a company is participating in rainbow capitalism, and that makes people feel accepted and happy. Fair enough. But if Home Depot spends the other 11 months of the year donating to organizations and political groups that are actively trying to take away the rights of LGBT+ folks...
How is that a win for anyone? Like, are we supposed to jump up and down with joy because a company decided our money was worth accepting for a brief period of time? We're allowed to exist for one month because it results in a profit increase for a company that actively hates who we are the rest of the year?
In what world does that make sense? "We hate you and want you back in the closet, but we threw a rainbow on this shovel, BUY IT OR YOU HATE LGBT PEOPLE. Cool, now go back in the closet, we've got what we wanted out of you."
It's patronizing at best, and insulting at worst. You liken it to a vaccine, which is a bad example since, famously, vaccines like Polio were released without a patent to help ensure their widespread use across the globe.
To me, it's more like "Why are you complaining that this restaurant spits in your sandwich every day? They didn't spit in it today because it's Pride, so why aren't you happy about it?" Because I know in 30 days they're going to spit in my sandwich again, and they're only not doing it now because of optics and wanting more money.
Hm. Of the three companies named, the only one I did business with is Lowe's.
Did.
CEO of Home Depot is a Trumper and has donated a lot of money to his campaigns.
Are there any better alternatives? Ace hardware doesn't participate in the Coporate Equality Index either, and TrueValue only has a score of 50 while Home Depot is 45.
I'm not sure tbh. There's Menards if you want the big conglomorate. For most things there are still the local hardware stores but they may not be close.
A lot of companies are dropping their DEI programs now because they don't have to do them anymore.
Id memory serves the owner of Menard's is a dick head and the company has gotten in trouble for worker and environmental violations. No idea about political leanings, but there really aren't too many places one can go that isn't directly supporting the erosion of our standard of living and basic rights.
I tend to favor Ace, just because I have one close by and they're all franchise stores (which means local ownership of the individual store, at least, which softens the blow of shitty corporate practices).
Menard's is another option, but I have no idea if they're any better on this issue than Home Depot or True Value.
Can I ask a sensitive question? This question is for LGBTQ+ people who actually work or worked at a company when it adopted or dropped participating in the program. Does the CEI actually have an effect on the company's workplace tolerance or it is just something they do for appearances? Has a company that decided to drop participating become more intolerant or did they maintain the practices, but maybe considered the program itself an unnecessary expense?
Edit: One more question. If you're a LGBTQ+ person who works or worked at a company with a good score. Did/does your experience match company's score?
Worked at a major company you would instantly know the name of.
They were a large corporation but were not public ally traded. Trillions of dollars in assets with more than 60k people employed.
DEI was a MAJOR push, with not just required corporate training but also sessions held often for minority groups of all types to speak their minds in forums about how to connect with them etc.
DEI initiatives and campaigns were a thing, VP of DEI was hired and they had a whole subsection under HR. Corporate events, entertainment, whole virtual bands playing to the theme of inclusion.
This same company did nothing when facing the burning obvious culture of being yes men to their bosses. They did nothing different than most any other massive rich company for how they treated workers, tracking their activity, location, and even physical assess login to buildings for reviews or as excuse to fire.
In an large address by a major leader in the organization I personally gave virtual written innocuous feedback, that they asked for, only to have that be met within minutes with being told never to do that again. The message wasn’t even seen by the speaker. It was just purely culturally unacceptable to offer any constructive criticism of any kind to people in high enough authority.
More than half a dozen people messaged me to tell me they appreciated I gave it public ally and it needed saying. I didn’t know any of them.
So if people are so important and we value voices being heard equally so much, why would you have people desperate to be treated like people and any such statement be met with greats of reprisal?
Yeah. DEI is fan fare in the same way the office cafeteria and gym were. They are designed to entice talent to come or stay while costing the company minimal amounts to do so.
I work gov side and was in the military. It helped in both places if it was supported by the bosses. Gay jokes stopped in my unit when someone got an instant public talking to when he used the gay f word as a term for the enemy team during an exercise. It made people realize that being ok with gay jokes bread a hostile workplace.
Same reason the military implemented the same training to curb rape and violence against women. If you cultivate an environment that stomps out the small/passive hate, it will show the people that commit hateful acts that they are not welcome.
Now that I work on the civilian side it helps so that the work we do is not hampered by a white male only experience. Others are not afraid to speak up on how decisions, settings, or tech effects people differently.
Is this part of a small government?
Target ran from the fight for equality and now we don't shop there. Fuck these corporate cowards. Withhold your business.