this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
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Programming

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[–] Gnubyte@lemdit.com 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

🌢️πŸ₯΅Many people consume Facebook meta company's tech stack wholesale, don't know how to actually traditionally program their way out of a paper bag, and web dev and devops caused a massive layoff (250k people) at the end of 2022, start of 2023 because it was all vaporware. They consume the same software in droves if the other guy uses it.

There is an entire subculture around it that is just a bunch of medium.com writers, YouTubers and twitter handles just trying to get the clicks for their ad money. Some of these guys have never written valid software or done anything noteworthy. If you meet them head on you'd find they have enormous egos and can't find a counter argument when presented with reason.

I'll even add on that there are many programmers who don't know how to code outside a web app.

Why is something like [react, graphql, react ssr, devops, tailwind, unit tests, containers] vaporware?

  • there are other frameworks even with component libraries that are easier to read the code for large codebases, better maintained, and have cohesive full stack solutions, and even faster to develop in, to name one quasarJS or even just plain ecmascript
  • if you look at the anatomy of these enterprises using these solutions they've evolved to have micro front ends requiring armies of workers.
  • devops is a sales term, the actual implementation of it is so contextual that you'd probably find you don't need a full time job for it half the time and most are relatively easy to setup inside of a business quarter
  • not everything is Facebook scale: unless you're padding your resume why did some of these get adopted? How complicated does your app need to be? Did you really need to transpile JavaScript for it?
  • unit tests were code to test your code that you're going to have to functionally test anyways: you're telling me that you have to write your code...twice? How the hell did this ever get justified to mangers? Why did the culture not evolve into literal automated smoke tests of the actual builds, instead of testing whether a function that is probably type annotated is going to fire anyways???
  • docker/containers suck ass: great that they solved a problem but created a whole new one. we moved to python and JS which were JIT without artifacts and suddenly everything needs a generalized build system to run it. C lang variants and Rust lang compile to a binary you can just run... Ship the small ass binary not an entire container to run your shitty web app

You know the stuff I don't hear about?

  • Javascript and Python were steps in the evolution but never the end goal. I'd even say the same of java. There are new solutions but JavaScript in the browser especially should be replaced.
  • eye appeal is buy appeal
  • that eye appeal shouldn't always mean you need to use a library or framework; vanilla apps work okay too.
  • binaries/artifacts/installer packages > containers
  • automated testing of the actual end product
  • well written logging to the point someone can tell what the application was doing without seeing code
  • using all these compsci algorithms to actually write new products and searches from scratch instead of being a framework baby: do you actually need ELK or Splunk for your search? Really?
  • you probably don't need MySQL for a lot of projects, I bet you an async library with sqlite would be the same for many of these projects.
  • small teams with feature rich apps using SSR, the value of an SSR web app
  • the value of a SPA
  • the value of traditional desktop software and not using REST APIs
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[–] qevlarr@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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[–] bouh@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Oh I have some!

Computer science is still a hobby and has a lot to go through before it is an actual industry.

Developers are too often bad engineers.

Short development cycles are a bad thing.

POO is trash. It's a manager tool, not an engineering one.

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[–] Templa@beehaw.org 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My experience with people from university is that they have extremely strong opinions about things they don't know very much how they work outside theory. There is this syndrome that you have to do everything from scratch with low level languages and keep shitting on anything that uses abstraction to make your life easier.

I don't know why people in this industry have this need of feeling that they're better than others.

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[–] tatterdemalion@programming.dev 15 points 1 year ago (10 children)

The only thing a GUI text editor can be better at than a terminal editor is making it easier to use the mouse.

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[–] Thordros@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

If you can't find where you missed a closed parentheses, just add a bunch of them to the end of your project like this...

)))))))))

... until your editor's syntax helper tells you it's good. I am very good at coding.

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[–] StudioLE@programming.dev 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My mantra has always been to bring solutions not problems. Applying that to code reviews makes for a far more productive experience.

Rather than just pointing out errors in code help the developer with prompts towards the solution.

Or, if you're too lazy to explain why something shouldn't be done then why should another developer have to act on your criticism?

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[–] ennemi@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago

DRY means Do Repeat Yourself, when the alternative is cooking up some awful OOP abstraction

[–] secret301@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Abstraction will be the death of traditional software development as we know it

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[–] IonicFrog@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A lot of programmers need to work on their soft skills.

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[–] Floey@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Write the whole thing, and only then, scrap it and rewrite it. This way you actually have a good understanding of the entire implementation when you are rewriting. When I refractor while writing my draft I will slow myself down and trip over myself, I'll be way more likely to rewrite something I've already rewritten.

Sure there is a limit to the size of projects this can work for, but even for massive projects they can still be broken into decently sized chunks. I'm just advocating for not rewriting function A as soon as you finish function B.

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[–] WoofWoof91@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] silent_water@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

learn Haskell, write better code

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[–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Front end and back end are different enough that you can really specialize in one or the other. They take very different mindsets. I know how to make css obey, I don't know how to make sql performant. Its possible to have both, but not as well.

For every front-end dev, you need 3 back-end guys and a designer.

Programmers are not bad at our jobs, its just not a mature disclipline yet.

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[–] UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Programming is the easy part, and a useless skill on its own.

If you can only program in one language, you can't program.

C++ is the single best language to learn programming.

Stupid mistakes you make are not bugs, at least not for you.

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[–] GaveUp@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Programming is actually hard af to do for any extended period of time (more than half an hour)

It requires such a specific mind that's drawn to all the detail oriented specific robotic parts of coding but almost all coders say coding is easy because the people whose mind don't fit coding already quit long ago

Yes I find coding hard and no I'm not coping

Actually programming being difficult might not be correct but more like programming is largely unbearable

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[–] Patchwork@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Doing this is a hot take, but "clean architecture" is a joke.

My company is obsessed with it.

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