this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2024
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Helldivers 2

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A message to the community from our game director (store.steampowered.com)
submitted 3 months ago by asymmetric@lemmy.ca to c/helldivers2@lemmy.ca
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Copypasted directly from source:

https://store.steampowered.com/news/?emclan=103582791473678397&emgid=4339866697736692015

Fellow Helldivers,

I want to directly address the feedback you've raised about the Escalation of Freedom update. We’ve spent the last week listening to feedback, reflecting about the path ahead for Helldivers 2 and how we want to continue developing the game. In short, we didn’t hit our target with the latest update. Some things we just didn’t get right - and other more fundamental inconsistencies in our approach to game balance and game direction.

All of that is on us and we are going to own that. As many of you have pointed out, and we agree, what matters most now is action. Not talk.

To that end, here's what we intend to do in the upcoming updates.

Our aim within the next 60 days: Continue to re-examine our approach to balance. Our intention is that balance should be fun, not “balanced” for the sake of balance. Update how the fire damage mechanic works to tweak how the flamethrower serves as a close range support weapon. (A quick straight revert won’t work, as it would break other things) Rework gameplay to prevent excessive ragdolling Re-think our design approach to primary weapons and create a plan for making combat more engaging Re-prioritize bug fixes so that the more immediate gameplay-impacting bugs are prioritized. Improve game performance (frame rate is a focus) Rework Chargers

Additionally, from a bigger picture perspective we will be: Exploring creation of an opt-in beta-test environment to improve our testing processes and we consider this a high-priority. Post regular player surveys to gather more insights and feedback from the community. Improve our process for patch/release notes - providing more context and reasoning behind changes. More blog posts and streams where we expand on these topics for those interested. We also want to thank you for your patience. We're grateful that so many of you provided constructive feedback and suggestions on the latest update.

Mikael E Game Director & Arrowhead Game Studios

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[–] Chozo@fedia.io 31 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This is almost exactly like the last statement they put out after balancing complaints, and the statement before that. They told us they learned their lesson last time, but here we are again in the exact same situation, again.

[–] NotMaster@lemmynsfw.com 11 points 3 months ago

Less statements about doing better and at least a little showing an attempt at doing better would be nice.

[–] PunchingWood@lemmy.world 24 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

I'll believe it when I see it.

They've been putting out similar statements before, only to yet again deliver updates in a broken state where loads of issues persist, get worse or even return. Or features get changed against the community's desire with seemingly no explanation.

Also, not a fan of players having to do the "opt-in beta-test" to test the game for them. That's an actual job that should be taken seriously by devs. They have plenty of money and plenty of devs, they should be able to resolve this without players doing their jobs for them.

They were already so close to a perfect game, yet they keep throwing it away with strange decisions just before they hit the gold.

[–] GetOffMyLan@programming.dev 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Beta tests are a great way of getting player feedback earlier as well as testing on a much bigger variation of machines.

[–] PunchingWood@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I know it's a means to get more information, but there are professional (game) testers who can do this too. What I mean is that it's an actual job and it just feels like there is next to no QA at the studio internally, despite the fact that this is a very important part of development. I work in a development studio myself and I know as a developer that it's easy to overlook issues when you're also the one that has to do all the testing.

Technical issues aside, they also seem to make strange gameplay decisions that don't sit well with the community. Those opt-in events might be a way to poll what players think. But it seems unnecesary to me, especially with changes that obviously wouldn't be received positively in the first place. They stated that they can't roll back the changes because other stuff would break, so even if there was a testing phase with players, it probably still would've happened unless they decided to push back the entire update weeks or months ahead. Which I personally don't mind, but they've set this goal/deadline for themselves to release content as a live service kind of model every few weeks, and it's clearly putting the pressure on.

We'll see how it goes, I just don't think that public beta testing will be much of a difference in the end, and it just sounds like some excuse to buy time until they get things straight internally or letting the whole commotion cool down, while giving players the impression they get to play a role in development decisions. But I doubt they're gonna reverse controversial gameplay decisions, even if we had public tests.

I just don't have that much faith in Arrowhead, since it's not the first time something like this happens (not only this game), then promise to do better, and then proceed to repeat their mistakes.

[–] Kovukono@pawb.social 4 points 3 months ago

Dead by Daylight does the opt-in beta thing. Progress doesn't transfer from one to the other, but unlocks are handled by just unlocking everything. The bonus of this, as opposed to in-house only, is that players can see what's coming and give at least some chance for feedback before release. The downside is that there's only one iteration, beta, then release, and sometimes things that worked in the beta are broken in release. I'm not saying that this should replace an in-house sandbox, but as an addition it helps devs get thousands of eyes on it and lets the community voice issues before they become semi-permanent.

[–] Schal330@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

I suspect they do have in-house QA, although it is likely a small team, and even when they do identify a bug the Devs don't have sufficient time to fix them.

An opt-in test environment is great for testing new features to get feedback and it's the right move, you can't have an internal team determine if a new feature is great for the player base, it'd be like Arrowhead giving itself a pat on the back for coming up with a great idea.

[–] Coskii@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

So much outrage over what could be a simple fix(es).

The flame thrower is a support short range weapon with limited scope. Giving it heavy armor penetration wouldn't change much about how and when it's used. It would allow the new primary and secondary to still be balanced with the others in their class, and keep the flamethrower support as a fan favorite.

The nerfing of the incindiary breaker was short sighted at best. I personally was ok with it until I learned they only did it because it was a popular weapon. Look at fucking why it's popular especially against bugs. Wide and medium range burn damage that is excellent at shooting into a grouping, bug hole, patrol, and chase line of little guys and decimating the group with a few shots and little to no needed accuracy. They made a longer range but weaker flamethrower and didn't expect it to shine a head and shoulders above the rest of the primaries when it comes to tightly grouped pack opponents? Knee jerk nerfs without any kind of insight on why something is being used is something I'm familiar with thanks to warframe, but it still feels bad.

[–] asymmetric@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

they only did it because it was a popular weapon. Look at fucking why it’s popular

This has been my belief too. You can't just look at the numbers provided by metrics and make decisions based solely on those, you have to use your metrics to understand the underlying reasons for why those numbers are happening.

[–] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Frankly I'm shocked the breaker was ONLY 30% of bug games. It deals with basically everything under a charger very effectively, allowing you to go full anti tank loadout with little risk.

[–] themachine@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

And since the recent changes it'll even kill chargers now. You can destroy their abdomen from behind with like half a mag. Pretty sure this is new as I know I've helplessly mag dumped into them before with no significant damage.

[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm positive the Breaker nerf was due to the Cookout being included in the war bond. They probably tested it and said "so... it's a worse version of the Breaker?" And then panic-nerfed the Breaker.

[–] Coskii@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Nah, the cookout might not have the damage or pellets, but it has that stagger. I love the damned thing so much. Anything smaller than a charger almost turns around when I hit em and it's great.

[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The stagger is nice but I find the damage lacking. Killing hive guards and commanders feels like I'm shooting a flaming BB gun at them.

[–] Coskii@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 3 months ago

I just pop em and keep it moving. As long as I can interrupt their actions I don't really need them dead. But yes. It does NOT kill anything other than weenies without concerted effort.

On the extreme plus side, it stunlocks stalkers.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 6 points 3 months ago

I'm curious why they can't just revert flame mechanics, what would it "break"?

Or do they mean it would make the new enemies too easy to kill?

[–] The_Che_Banana@beehaw.org 6 points 3 months ago

Good.

Still having fun playing it...even if sometimes I look a a minor point of interest and am then yeeted across the void into an abyss I wish I could experience on shrooms.

I still get good squads and everyone seems t9 habe fun when we roll through. Could it be better? Yeah... Could the player base just take a chill pill....also yeah.

Games are played to have fun, if you are not having fun play something else, and then come back when it is fixed to your satisfaction.

Granted, i am the guy they're not making the game for because im not spending more xash on builds but grinding because its high season and i need a mindless grind game that is interesting (my previous go to was the OG SW Battlefront 1 & 2, but sold the xbox to get a steam deck).

Anyway, thats my 2 cents.

[–] theOneTrueSpoon@feddit.uk 5 points 3 months ago

I like how the game director's name is Mikael E Game Director. It's like he was born for the job!

[–] indomara@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What ever happened to Helldivers2 and the whole Sony making it (and was it Ghost of Tushima?) unavailable in certain countries thing?

We were excited to try Helldivers as we are between games, but after Sony pulled that stuff we didn't give it a second look.

Did they reverse the decision?

[–] domi@lemmy.secnd.me 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They doubled down on it and every single new game from them requires a PSN account now. Even their singleplayer releases.

They skipped the PSN requirement for Helldivers (for now) because of the outrage.

[–] primrosepathspeedrun@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

they SHOULD have learned that when you pull this shit, and do it enough that even gamers abandon you, you do not get to recover.

not the lesson they did learn, but, you know, im not a 4d chess billion dollars a year ceo

[–] domi@lemmy.secnd.me 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Ghost of Tsushima is their best selling PC game yet, so they don't have to learn anything. People just don't care.

[–] primrosepathspeedrun@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

obviously some of us do.

[–] ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Maybe stop releasing shitty $10 battle passes every two months and fix your damn game.

[–] Murvel@lemm.ee 5 points 3 months ago

Lmao, I haven't spent a dime in the game, and I have unlocked all the battle passes except one. And I'm level 80.