148
this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2024
148 points (93.0% liked)
the_dunk_tank
15911 readers
604 users here now
It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.
Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.
Rule 3: No sectarianism.
Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome
Rule 5: No ableism of any kind (that includes stuff like libt*rd)
Rule 6: Do not post fellow hexbears.
Rule 7: Do not individually target other instances' admins or moderators.
Rule 8: The subject of a post cannot be low hanging fruit, that is comments/posts made by a private person that have low amount of upvotes/likes/views. Comments/Posts made on other instances that are accessible from hexbear are an exception to this. Posts that do not meet this requirement can be posted to !shitreactionariessay@lemmygrad.ml
Rule 9: if you post ironic rage bait im going to make a personal visit to your house to make sure you never make this mistake again
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
European lefty here with some questions for the anti-both crowd.
With the FPTP voting system, aren't you limited to a binary choice between Trump and Biden? I agree that Biden has been shamefully complicit in the Palestinian genocide (among broken campaign promises and rightful health concerns), though I would imagine that "finish the job" Trump would be a more destructive choice. Would it not be marginally better to have Biden in office?
I don't hold Biden in the view of someone who is a champion of environmentalism or global peace, but an anti-NATO, anti-climate science, fraudster surely would be more likely to implement harmful changes that are difficult to reverse versus a generic neoliberal?
Of course, this is through the perspective of your current voting system; ideally you would have third-party options that you could realistically elect that are not fronted by genocide supporters. In a case where you had the option for ranked choice or approval voting, who would your ideal party or candidate be?
(Not a troll/criticism post - genuinely curious about the spectrum of American politics coming into the election!)
Biden, and the democratic party more broadly have two roles to play (outside of maintaining capitalism).
When it's time to fulfill role 1. the party always hedges, because they fear that taking any strong actions will alienate centrist voters, or more importantly donors. This means that on many issues, any progress made is not enough to undo the damage done under a republican government. On other issues the situation declines under either party. There are very few significant issues where the democrats are actually able to overcome the republicans long term.
All of this is very disappointing, but on its own it would still be preferable to republicans ruling completely unopposed.
The problem is when you factor in role 2. The republicans are not an unstoppable force of highly competent and well liked people. A party that was dedicated to taking serious actions to improve the lives of the average voter could easily beat the republicans electorally, if they wouldn't also have to take on the democratic party and all of their media influence. When the democrats pursue role 2. they have no reason to hold back. Their continued existence relies on giving it their full effort. They will try to prevent any organization from accumulating enough power to push them left, while actively pushing the republicans to the far right to strengthen their own position.
Having to choose between two terrible candidates isn't something that's happened on accident. It's the result of the ongoing actions of the democratic party.
At this point, with the ticking clocks of climate change and rising fascism, a democrat in the white house is not remotely adequate to make a difference. We're headed to multiple simultaneous catastrophes either way. The only thing voting for Biden accomplishes is supporting the party that brought us here in clinging to power until their last breath.
Right now there is no 'realistic' alternative outside of the two party electoral system. I don't know if there will be one in the future, but there's certainly no hope in helping to reinforce it.
I think your explanation has best explained it - you see it more as both parties sort of upholding an undemocratic status quo (as you said, Republicans actively doing x activity with Democrats either not doing enough to counteract or being implicit) rather than the Dems/Biden offering a tangible actual long-term change. I understand as well that the party had better candidates than Biden/Hillary but the candidacy is heavily dependent on funding/donations, which is wildly inequitable. Thank you for taking the time to explain, very informative.