this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2020
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No, fuck that. It isn't just about being gross, it's about the potential for abuse. Parents have power over kids and can groom them to be ok with it once they come of age. Given that the vast majority of people are naturally inclined to find it gross and wrong, the chances that two people in the same family "just happen" to be ok with it are extremely low, and it's much, much more likely that something fucked up is happening and that one of them is the victim of abuse.
Obviously, couples aren't going to be on equal footing power-wise and that's ok - but when you have extreme differences in power, like that of a guard and a prisoner or a parent and child, then it isn't safe to assume that just because someone says they consent means that they really do.
If you're adults and you meet a long-lost sibling you never met and decide to hook up, it's still weird af but I don't have a problem with it on principle. But that's the exception, in most cases it's a matter of abuse.
Abuse is abuse. It's not consensual, and would still be treated as such. We have the same policy for workplaces, schools, and prisons like you said.
If most cases are abuse then those cases will still be illegal, but because they are abuse, not because they are incest.
A sort of compromise could be keeping inter-generational incest illegal, but not same generation. But still, setting the illegality criteria at actual abuse makes more sense to me.
No. First off there's still the problem of grooming. Proving abuse is much harder if the child was essentially brainwashed from birth to be ok with it. We can't reasonably expect the state to have sufficient knowledge of people's private lives - literally all of their home life for 18 years - to be able to judge which relationships are kosher on a case by case basis. It would inevitably go into a bunch of "he said, she said," and that's assuming that the victim is actually willing to testify against their abuser in the first place, which again, if they're groomed, they probably won't.
The rights of kids to not be groomed and abused and scarred for life outweighs your right to bang your family members. It's an extremely small sacrifice, made for an important reason.
You could argue that since it's illegal, victims who are already adults will be afraid to come forward since it was technically illegal for them too once they became adults.
But like I said, the compromise is making only same generation incest legal, or making a certain age difference illegal so stuff like siblings and cousins where it's a lot less likely to be grooming are fine.
I'm still not ok with siblings. Again, just from the perspective of probability, it's astronomically unlikely that two siblings would both randomly decide that they're ok with it independently from each other. We can be almost certain that one got the other into it, and we can't be sure when that happened, whether the topic was breached as adults or whether the seed was planted during development.
The number of cases where two family members want to have sex with each other and nothing fucked up has happened in the process is so small that it may well be zero. We shouldn't make a rule from the exception.
It doesn't have to be random and independent. If neither sibling has power over the other (any more than any other couple), one proposes it, and the other accepts despite never having thought about it before and perhaps after thinking about it after, there's still no problem, that's literally how consent works.