this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
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So this looks dope, for sure. I wish there were more news about when to expect the expansions. This game is so much better than Diablo III in most ways excluding one: It's a Diablo game without Diablo, which has left a pretty sour taste in my mouth after finishing the epilogue. The seasons will be fun, I'm sure - but I really just want the rest of the story that I feel like should have been part of the base game.
Yeah, after playing it I was like...this game should have been called Lilith, but of course the brand recognition wouldn't be there. At least put a subtitle like Daughter of Hatred or something. I mean come on, give her some credit at least LOL!
Personally, I actually liked Lilith's more complicated take on the big bad. I was actually rooting for her against
spoiler
Inarius and thought her plan of getting rid of Mephisto was better than what we eventually did, which was trapping yet another Prime Evil in a soulstone...again.But hey, Wanderer, you made your own choice!
...I really hated how they rubbed into my face the fact that I couldn't choose anything but that :D
Really wish they let players choose to back Lilith - her plan to fight prime evils was the only one that didn’t lead to a never ending wheel.
Hey you’ve got this option to end an eternal conflict of which you’re smack middle of and getting fucked by both sides; but we’ll go ahead and stick to the eternal conflict.
There could’ve been so much follow up to that choice too: fighting angels how ant to stop you from getting too powerful, fighting other primes and their armies as they fear we kill them, building protections into the world to separate it from everything, and more.
If you chose to back Lilith, the eternal conflict would've ended...with her winning and everyone else losing. I'm not sure why there are so many Lilith supporters, Guulrahn made it pretty clear she doesn't care about humans and is just using them as a tool for her own power.
Everyone was already constantly losing against the Prime Evils anyways. I think she does care somewhat about humanity in general or at least striving for what she thinks an elevated humanity might be, but she isn't against doing whatever is necessary to achieve her goals. Her ends definitely did not justify the means. Still I think, given a choice, siding with Lilith still would have been better than what ended up getting in the end, which was
spoiler
Neyrelle disappearing and doing god knows what with Mephisto. She's probably already being slowly corrupted.Man...Lemmy really needs inline spoilers.
Now imagine Mephisto outside of the soulstone but with another major demon's power on top of his.
That's what Lilith would have been after consuming him. The Neyrelle dumb decision is a separate issue.
It's the other way around. Imagine Lilith with another major demon's power on top of hers. Lilith being the driver is better than Mephisto IMHO. Mephisto has no qualms saying what he plans for humanity. I think Lilith, having had a major hand in creating Sanctuary and humanity in the first place, would have had at least some overlapping interests that would have worked in our favor.
It's like picking between one person who says they're definitely going to kill you and another person who says they'll maybe kill you if the need arises.
Again, that's not any better.
If someone tells you they're going to slap you and another one doesn't, you're still getting slapped. And in this case, you didn't get slapped by either but you might down the road.
Like I said, at least some of what Lilith wants aligns with humanity's interests. Enemy of my enemy is my friend type deal. I am not saying Lilith is a saint, I am just saying you can at least bargain with her. We're all just trying to pick the lesser of two evils.
Besides, siding with Mephisto just means doing the same shit we've been doing for the past 3 games and we all know how that worked out. Even if we're getting slapped eventually, at least we aren't doing the same thing that we already know hasn't worked for us before.
Yes, I did watch the lore videos. None of them change my view on the matter actually. Angels and demons have been killing each other since the dawn of creation so I don't see Lilith's actions as any different or any more ruthless. Also, she did that in defense of the Nephalem, which humanity descended from, so I feel like I have more in common with her goals than Mephisto's.
So would existence under any of the Prime Evils.
One question for you since you seem knowledgeable about the lore: What happened to the Nephalem after D3? In D3 the player character is a nephalem and in D4 we're just some random human as far as I know. And that's fine. I just want to know what happened to the player characters of D3 in the transit to D4.
Don't get me wrong, I think she's terrible in the grand scheme of things. I just think that humanity being descendants of the Nephalem have more interests that align with Lilith compared to Mephisto and that might ultimately lead to a change in the never ending eternal conflict. For example, I think she would have wanted to protect Sanctuary itself, whereas both the heavens and the hells wouldn't give two shits about destroying it if it served their purposes. I also disagree about the part where she didn't care about humanity, because humanity is just essentially the children of her spawn. Plus, wasn't Uldyssian a human who later regained his Nephalem powers? So its there, just hidden by the Worldstone tweaks that Inarius did.
spoiler
If my "husband" murdered my son and then impaled me through a wall with a spear and I was in a position to do something about it after the fact, I'd stab and kill him too lol.Lilith isn't great...I just don't think Mephisto is the answer. That's what I mean by choosing the lesser evil...he's the worse choice out of the two. At least humanity has a bond with Lilith through being part of her extended family.
I feel like battling Mephisto and winning at least keeps humanity alive in its current form.
Lilith might actually enslave everyone.
Uhh, I thought the point was both Inarius and Lilith didn't care one bit about humans except for as a tool
I'd agree that was the overall point but the choice isn't between Inarius and Lilith, we can choose neither because they're both awful.
She actually had made clear the opposite; she wanted the humans to regain their strength, back to the levels of the original Nephalem, that both heaven and hell feared.
Multiple times she references how so much was stolen from her children and how she would return them back to their power.
It was Inarius that gave up on the humans and regretted making them; using them only as a tool to get what he wanted: a way back into heaven.
Oh Inarius was definitely just using humans.
But I don't really trust a word that Lilith says. I think she's manipulative as a core trait of her character which was really well written just from how many players she has convinced.
She's kind of a murderous demon monster though. Lilith in charge of sanctuary does not seem better than demons occasionally trying to invade sanctuary.