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US mother sentenced to two years in prison for giving daughter abortion pills
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2023
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Abortion after 20 weeks sounds kinda extreme though. Most countries stop at 15.
You get downvoted hard, but I'm not sure why. I think we all agree that putting someone into prison for an abortion is controversial at best. However, 20 weeks into pregnancy... that's only 2 weeks before it's considered to have a chance of survival at a premature birth.
At one point does it become murder? What if you kill your child right after a premature birth? I'm sure we all agree that's bad. So it's okay to kill the child if it's inside the womb, but not once it gets out? You have to put a limit somewhere, and you have to enforce that limit or you might as well not set it.
Again, I'm not against abortions, but 20 weeks... man... that's rough.
You nailed it. It's not a child when it's inside the woman, so it's not murder. Women get to decide what they do with their own body. I don't know why that's so goddamn difficult.
That's quite an extreme position. Saying "my body, my choice to kill this thing that will be born tomorrow" is very weird.
Give me your kidney. I need it to live so you have to.
No? I can't force you to use your body to keep mine alive?
Then why do the same to women? Because we want to imagine some "responsibility" for "their actions". And as soon as rape and coercion never happen we can have that conversation. Until then, let's leave it to the ladies to decide what they do with their organs.
You say "would be alive tomorrow", but that's false. They do not, ever, abort something that is completely viable outside the womb. The process for aborting that late is basically induction, and when you do that, now you have a living baby that you can't murder.
Read what the person who I replied to said. They said as long as the baby is in the womb, it's ok to kill it. Hence, they believe it's ok to kill a baby that would be born the next day. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.
It's the only morally justified position. There's no arbitrary point in time when a person should lose control of their body and be forced to undergo a potentially life-risking event. It's their body and you have no business telling them what they can do with it.
Unfortunately, you're on an ultra left site, so everything gets filtered through that lens.
Ultra left? Woo boy do you need to talk to more people. This place is center left at best. Plenty of capitalists wandering around.
I consider communism = good, corporations = bad, & pro-censorship to be pretty far left. If that isn't, I'd love to know what is considered left here.
Who is pro-censorship? I haven't seen that at all on here. In fact, the moderation tools are so bad a lot of hate gets left up until it gets reported a ton. Always with the pathetic victim complex.
Yep. And that's like 30% of what I see on Lemmy. So to call it a far left site seems odd.
But I guess YMMV depending on what instance you're on.
Twenty weeks is a whole half of a month to a full month before it considered to have a CHANCE of survival, and a premature birth at 5 months, is only survivable with extraordinary medical interventions and is likely to result in Life long complications.
At what point does it become murder? When it's completely viable, and not a second before.
No one has an abortion at 20 weeks for any reason but a good one. When you had your abortion, what reason did you have?
Third trimester was the no kill zone for a long time.
Uhhhhh it's still a nonviable fetus. And 22 week preemies don't have great outcomes either - 30% survival rate and severe health complications.
Less than that. 46 out of 486 babies survived at least shortly after labor. That is about 15%.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-50144741
Let's ignore this case for a moment due to how problematic it is (no doctor consulted for her, done at 28 weeks, burning the stillborn, etc). 20 weeks is not rough. The chance of survival at 22 weeks is about 15% and most of those will have a hard road ahead if they even make it past the first year.
At what point it is okay for the abortion should be figured out between the woman and her doctor, not you or me. Your other questions are not worth responding to since that answer takes care of all of them.
"At the time, Nebraska law banned abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy. Celeste Burgess’s pregnancy was well past that point, according to court records."
Not just 20 weeks, but "well past" the bar that was 20 weeks. However you look at it, this was a pretty grim situation.