poor leftists talk about poverty, labor aristocrats get uncomfortable and insist that sociological classes aren't materialist. "all that matters is that we're working class - we're all in this together"
black leftists talk about racism, whites get uncomfortable and insist that they're not personally part of the problem. "we mustn't allow the bourgeois to divide the proletariat along racial lines - we're all in this together"
female leftists talk about patriarchy, men get uncomfortable and insist that it hurts them too. "this men vs women stuff is reductive anyway - we're all in this together"
third world leftists talk about imperialism, americoids get uncomfortable and insist that red white and blue lives matter too. "what happened to the international working class - we're all in this together"

you don't have to invite yourself to every form and experience of oppression. anyone with a baby's consciousness of intersectionality ought to be capable of admitting when they have privilege

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[–] LovesAGoodPigRoast@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (24 children)

Wtf you can get comments removed for being "too class reductionist" as a racial minority on this site? I guess my opinion as a black person that wants workers solidarity and because im not a black nationalists doesn't fit with the narratives of the mods here. Lame site. I'm out.

[–] Juice@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I hope you stay around because I see your perspective, and I think if you wait and let hexbears have a struggle sesh then they will be able to see it too. Because as a cishet white guy, it was actually really important for me to get to the line that these other commenters keep repeating: that the place where workers feel the effects of of their economic exploitation is usually some social distinction like race/gender/ethnicity/expression. I also believe that capital and value are real and temporal, condensed laboring time of workers, and if I understand all of this correctly, a huge amount of the cultural and social capital, basically anything new, or persisting from slavery and indigenous dispossession and genocide, as well as everything in between (carcerial and police repression, extreme exploitation of demonized immigrants), is composed disproportionately of the value of the toil, extracted through extreme violence, of BIPoC around the world.

OTOH, I don't relate to black comrades as a racialized social relation. We are all volunteers so the people who are working together are there because they got their ass out to work together to get something done, or aid in people's struggles, or plan and even just bullshit in off time.

It seems like there is what leftist believe that certain positions on race "need to" or are "supposed to" be, because of the compound legacies of imperialism and colonialism and patriarchy, etc., especially with regards to whites like me, but those positions can end up flattening the lived experience of people into a collection of historical figures and facts, an object instead of a person. But what this disconnect is, what it is called for example, if it exists, idk if there's a name for it. So like so many problems, people disagree over things they don't have the language to understand yet.

Anyway, I appreciate your comments, comrade. Thanks.

[–] LovesAGoodPigRoast@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Imma keep it real with it you man, the vibe I get from some people here is that none of us should be set free unless we're all in the house first. I know that's not the best way of saying it or even if it's true. If this comment is out of bounds go ahead and remove it, but I hope to stick around and learn.

[–] Juice@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We all have a ton of issues to work through, I hope you will be patient with us as I genuinely think HBs are acting in good faith! But we are all developing in different ways and at different rates. I'm sure you're able to recognize some ways in which you could become a better comrade, and part of that is by interacting principally with other principled politicized workers.

Unfortunately, in my organizing I have not yet encountered the movement that will stand a chance against imperialism. So until I find it or it finds me, I have to try to build it, out of the paved over wasteland of the american labor movement. It takes more patience and personal development than I ever anticipated. But at least I know I'm not completely alone. Our only hope is in each other, in solidarity. Hopelessness is to lose sight of that.

Anyway, thanks for your patience and strength. Sticking with it helps us to recognize and confront issues we encounter with other comrades. Sometimes it seems like we are the only ones who see a real problem with the way others approach problems that crop up as a result of left organizing and, while it could be a sign that we just aren't compatible with a group's beliefs, it could also be a sign that we are just a little ahead of our comrades in certain areas, and we can bring them up to speed and strengthen the movement in doing so.

In other words, quantitative inputs over time add up to great qualitative change. It can be slow process but we have to believe it to be successful, as every successful socialist movement has recognized the political effectiveness of dialectical change

[–] LovesAGoodPigRoast@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

I mean I've learned a lot already and everyone here is so nice it was hard to believe. Thanks for all of information.

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