This whole counter offensive insanity is so militarily nonsensical that it had to have been mounted to please the West with a "win" so that they'd stay in the war. Real Chiang Kai Shek committing the best of the KMT army to Shanghai to impress the Westerners energy.

The West is standing on the sidelines, supplying just enough equipment to keep the embers going and judging the ordinary Ukrainians going to their deaths by their hundreds.

Fuck the clowns in charge in Kiev and fuck the Nazi militias obviously. But at this point the men being sent to the front are old men and boys dragged off the street against their will. Sending them to die to appease the West is fucking sick.

[–] LeFantome@programming.dev 19 points 1 year ago (99 children)

This got an upvote?

Are you open to proposing your master plan?

Ukraine has been invaded. Are you suggesting they do not fight back?

NATO is not war. No NATO country has been attacked. Engaging against Russia directly would put NATO at war with a nuclear power. I cannot imagine that this is your plan.

Not just “the West”, but everybody is on the sidelines as far as direct engagement goes. Most countries are assisting Ukraine where they can. Some to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. Most have imposed crippling sanctions. So. “sidelines” is a bit misleading from that perspective.

Even Russia’s allies are “on the sidelines”. You certainly do not see much overt support from China. They have even maintained ( in fact stepped-up ) diplomatic relation with Ukraine.

Or are you trying to imply that the underlying cause of everything here is something other than Russia’s continued invasion? Everybody could truly go back to the sidelines if Russia just left.

The only other path is for Ukraine to win. Are you supporting that or not?

[–] rubpoll@hexbear.net 75 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (62 children)

If your goal is to prevent deaths, surrendering would have been the ideal yeah.

Zelenksy tried to surrender to prevent further deaths, and Boris Johnson refused to let that meeting happen because NATO isn't finished using Ukranians as crash test dummies.

[–] bazo@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What the fuck is that shit that I just read.

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago

What the fuck kind of a lazy ass response is this?

[–] Vingst@hexbear.net 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-pressured-zelenskyy-ditch-peace-talks-russia-ukrainian-paper

[–] GivingEuropeASpook@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"It's not clear how Zelenskyy himself responded to Johnson's reported push to halt peace talks. On the same day of the British prime minister's arrival in Kyiv, Zelenskyy told the Associated Press in an interview that "no one wants to negotiate with a person or people who tortured this nation." "It's all understandable," he continued. "And as a man, as a father, I understand this very well." But, Zelenskyy added, "we don't want to lose opportunities, if we have them, for a diplomatic solution."

Also the only time the word "surrender" shows up is in a quote here where it was the west telling Zelensky to surrender and flee.

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