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submitted 1 day ago by Confidant6198@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[-] pokexpert30@lemmy.pussthecat.org 5 points 19 hours ago
[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 18 hours ago

Socialism is good

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 day ago

As Capitalism decays due to Imperialism reaching its death throes, more people will begin to support Socialism and eventually a large number of tiny quantitative shifts will result in a qualitative change. There is hope.

[-] Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world -1 points 15 hours ago

Soviet communism isn't socialism

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 hours ago

Can you explain? The USSR was undoubdtedly Socialist, both Marxists and non-Marxists agree.

[-] Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world 1 points 18 minutes ago

There was semblance of socialism yes. But it wasn't a socialist government. Also is it really socialist if there are levels of people who get different levels of care, pay, and living conditions?

[-] umbrella@lemmy.ml 2 points 15 minutes ago

you are thinking of communism, which hasnt been achieved anywhere yet

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 minutes ago

There was semblance of socialism yes. But it wasn't a socialist government.

What does this mean? Can you offer any explanation beyond "because I said so?"

Also is it really socialist if there are levels of people who get different levels of care, pay, and living conditions?

Yes, absolutely. What gave you the idea that Socialism is when everyone gets paid the same? Marx directly argued against that, along with Lenin.

[-] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net -1 points 1 hour ago

Socialism means collective ownership of the means of production. The issue with the Soviet Union was that all means of production were controlled by the state. However there was no way in which the people controlled the state, since at least 1936 and argueably earlier then that.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Socialism means collective ownership of the means of production.

Generally agree, though it's important to also recognize that it's a transitional status towards Communism, at least in Marxist theory (which the USSR followed).

The issue with the Soviet Union was that all means of production were controlled by the state.

That's not an issue at all, centralization of the Means of Production in the hands of a Dictatorship of the Proletariat is straight from Marx and Engels:

"The first act by virtue of which the State really constitutes itself the representative of the whole of society — the taking possession of the means of production in the name of society — this is, at the same time, its last independent act as a State. State interference in social relations becomes, in one domain after another, superfluous, and then dies out of itself; the government of persons is replaced by the administration of things, and by the conduct of processes of production. The State is not "abolished". It dies out. This gives the measure of the value of the phrase: "a free State", both as to its justifiable use at times by agitators, and as to its ultimate scientific insufficiency; and also of the demands of the so-called anarchists for the abolition of the State out of hand."

-Engels in Socialism: Utopian and Scientific

However there was no way in which the people controlled the state, since at least 1936 and argueably earlier then that.

This is plainly false. The CPSU was in charge, not a bourgeois class, and the people elected representatives among the workers in a process called "Soviet Democracy." Here's a handy infographic:

All in all, I highly recommend you read Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism. It's great for debunking popular Red Scare myths about Communism, and even includes a section for supposed "left" anticommunism. It's clear, easy to read, and doesn't require understanding any Marxist theory to enjoy, though I can also point out some good beginner texts if you want those too.

[-] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 1 points 7 minutes ago

Lenin ended any oppurtunity for none CPSU members to be elected to the Soviets and banned factions in the CPSU in 1921. He then eliminated opposition with the Cheka. Even before that the Communists acted under "war communism", which meant killing anybody not 100% in line. That very much included Machnos work in setting up a Soviet Democracy in Ukraine, due to them being Anarchists. Stalin then abolished the Soviets in 1936.

The Soviet Union had a bit of it, in the very beginning, but it failed and turned into a statist dictatorship. That is why Stalin ordered the Anarchists to be killed in Spain as well, the Prague Spring got crushed due to moving into a more democratic direction as well as many other movements of worker uprisings.

this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2024
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